- raidah wrote:
this made me curious too. ok so its illegal to retain the passport. employers know it. still they would ask ur passport. what do they say?
lets not talk about the poor construction workers, who i guess have no idea whats happening to them when they get to dubai.
in an average case what is the explanation or excuse of the employer to hold one's passport. or what do they say if u already gave it to them, and ask it back? i mean a more daring employee can always say: sorry, but my passport is my property and the company has no right to retain it.
r there certain types of industries where this happens or anybody can have the surprise?
raidah
dubai is a cowboy town and the rules are made as we go along...not always the case...and thus the relatively new ruling by the govt saying that it is indeed illegal to retain passports...but its a powerplay thing when an employer stronghands an employee...who is not in a bargaining position and is really in need of the job...again it boils down to your nationality and race doesnt it...i mean do you think a brit or aussie national would let a company get away with holding his/her passport...whereas an indian/egyptian/ex-soviet national would be less sure of his prospects...like anything else which is under rug swept...this is plain WRONG...like rents this is plain suicide...but does it stop...will it stop employers from being complete dip$hits...NO...only YOU have the power to say no...and perhaps only you might actually suffer the consequences...unless the employee has a specialised skill set (like docs/editors/etc etc) and has indeed the bargaining power to say no..question is "are you confident enough to say NO and are you indispensable?"... I-No-Jack
- zam wrote:
I dont have any personal issues with it, but in case of emergency, what can happen to us?
that's the one and only reason you should have a 'pernal issue' with it raidah :lol: this is just great...do i really wanna go there? i mean when i read about those poor men in contructions and the conditions they r being kept in, the 1st image that came into my mind was the one u get from those movies about ancient egypt and slaves working on pyramids... :? in dubai there seems to be a (pseudo)mid class, but whats the use of it, if having a white skin is overcomed by a brit passport and i have to smile into smbody's darker face and akt as if its ok that he/she gets less than me, just for having a tan... this is insane :lol: :?
1 Dubai Jobs .com The First Place to Find a Job in Dubai
I-No-Jack
- raidah wrote:
:lol:
this is just great...do i really wanna go there? i mean when i read about those poor men in contructions and the conditions they r being kept in, the 1st image that came into my mind was the one u get from those movies about ancient egypt and slaves working on pyramids... :?
in dubai there seems to be a (pseudo)mid class, but whats the use of it, if having a white skin is overcomed by a brit passport and i have to smile into smbody's darker face and akt as if its ok that he/she gets less than me, just for having a tan...
this is insane :lol: :?
not a problem just give some of that extra salary of yours to them to even things out raidah
- I-No-Jack wrote:
not a problem just give some of that extra salary of yours to them to even things out
u are irritating scarlet Its a fair comment. kanelli Tell them you will not give up your passport and remind them that it is illegal for employers to keep passports whether it is common practice or not. Just be aware that they can then refuse to hire you. I would never sign with a company that insisted on keeping my passport. The government of Canada owns my passport and entrusts it to me. If an employer wants to hold my passport they need to deal with the government of Canada - ask them for permission. :) dbxsoul theoretically this all sounds good, however the in practice you have to hand your passport over to the company PRO so that your residency visa can be added to your passport - most employers then use this opportunity to then keep the passport. again in practice there are advantages to an employer holding the employees passport (while i don't condone this myself). imagine a construction company with 10,000 employees - imagine the time, expense, lost man hours etc. every year if they all held onto their passports ..... by this i mean, lost passports, stolen passports, burnt passports, renewal of passports.... in most companies (not all of them) the HR department will manage the passports on behalf of the employee - renew visas, apply for passports to be renewed etc. in addition if a passport is lost/ damaged/ stolen while in the possession of the company the company is responsible for all the costs incurred in replacing the passport for the employee - as well as a 5,000 aed fine - per passport (i actually know of one case where this was enforced when 200 passports were stolen) always two sides to the story - not necessarily a power trip ineedacoolnick Hi,
Thanks for the suggestions. Seemed to spark an interesting conversation. :)
Anyway, what dbxsoul said is right - the company takes a passport to stamp the visa and then doesn't return it. However, I wouldn't want a co. to keep the passport whether they compensate me or not, because I'm the one who'd have to do all the running around! Go to the embassy...go the police..put a lost passport ad. in the paper...blah blah.
Ian - I'm already in Dubai, i was born and bought up in UAE. Going to be joining a real estate company on Saturday (anyone wanna buy an property please let me know).
As Constantine correctly pointed out, it does depend on whether you can afford to argue etc. I'm Indian, joining in a normal position etc; so unfortunately can't really afford to argue.
I don't know why I bought it up, but just wanted any polite/diplomatic suggestions.
I KNOW if I ask the HR they'll just say "its company policy" and things along those lines...
Talking about government rules - JAFZA (Jebel Ali Free Zone Authority), one of the biggest government authorities, keep passports for many employees under their sponsorship. Strange but sadly true. :)
sharewadi
- dbxsoul wrote:
always two sides to the story - not necessarily a power trip
No. It's illegal according to UAE law, and against the terms and conditions of an individual being given a passport by their country's government. Which are that the passport is the property of that country's government and should only be surrendered to the proper authorities ie police, border control, visa issuing authority.
If a company wants to do you a favor by looking after your passport, then fine - but it's only a favor if it's your choice.
I would find it very difficult to take seriously any company that wants to withhold my passport. After all, it clearly shows how little respect they have for UAE law.
Having said that, I know it's difficult to keep your passport if company policy is to retain them. I know people have managed to do so. Try and get it back by claiming you need it for travel to Oman or Bahrain or something for a weekend. And then keep it. dbxsoul
- Quote:
- No. It's illegal according to UAE law, and against the terms and conditions of an individual being given a passport by their country's government. Which are that the passport is the property of that country's government and should only be surrendered to the proper authorities ie police, border control, visa issuing authority.
If a company wants to do you a favor by looking after your passport, then fine - but it's only a favor if it's your choice.
sharewadi, i in no way dissagree with your comments - but lets face it... working and living in the UAE there is theory/ legal vs. practical - if there's a rule it can be bent, if there's a corner it can be cut .......
whether anyone would like to admit it or not, there are clear double standards implemented here on a daily basis....
Animal Farm - "All animals are equal, but some animals are more equal than other" sharewadi
- dbxsoul wrote:
sharewadi, i in no way dissagree with your comments - but lets face it... working and living in the UAE there is theory/ legal vs. practical - if there's a rule it can be bent, if there's a corner it can be cut .......
whether anyone would like to admit it or not, there are clear double standards implemented here on a daily basis....
Animal Farm - "All animals are equal, but some animals are more equal than other"
Absolutely. And there are times when I have been very happy with the double standards and rule-bending here :mrgreen:.
It was the way you said there are two sides to every story that bothered me - it sounded like you were justifying the position of companies that retained passports. IMHO I do think it is a control mechanism on the part of those companies and is plain wrong. Like any rule-bending here, they get away with it because they can.
- mraph33 wrote:
There was a Gulf-News article about it a few months ago. They said that it is illegal, but all the govt. ministries still do it.
Kind of ironic?!?!
That's a bit crap considering even publishing houses retain passports!
If you look in the front of your passport it clearly states that it is the property of your country and government and that no other party apart from yourself or a recognised agreed official can hold your passport.
I do however understand why companies do it, as there is such a big problem with people just leaving and leaving with massive debt. For instance one of my British co-workers nicked off owning nearly 100,000 DHS, he just upped and left his apartment with everything in it. sage & onion It's not the first time I heard about people doing this, it's really sad. dbxsoul
- Quote:
- That is priceless - the government has a law that employers are not allowed to keep employee passports, but they themselves keep employee passports during a 6 month probation period.
sad, but true... most of the issues that are discussed on this forum don't pertain to government employees.
the labour law that governs us (federal law 8 of 1980) states in Article 3
"the provisions of this Law shall not apply to the following catagories:- a) staff, employees and workers of the federal governement and government departments of the member emirates of the State as well as staff, employees and workers of municipalities ... b) members of armed forces as well as police, security and defence force c) domestic servants and the like d) labourers employed in agriculture ... "
this covers issues such as a mandatory 1 year ban for expatriate government/ municipal employees/ domestic servants - not 6 months like the rest of us sharewadi
- Zino wrote:
I have been in Dubai for nearly six months now. I work for the Dubai Government, and the rules are:
"REGARDLESS OF YOUR NATIONALITY, during your probation, which is 6 months, the Authority retains your passport for the whole period, and could only be handed in exceptional circumstances (emergency)".
Gulf News says...
- Quote:
- Abu Dhabi: A senior official reiterated yesterday that private businesses and government institutions that withhold their employees' passports are breaking the law but admitted it is a common practice.
"The practice of retaining passports in the UAE is illegal in accordance with court rulings," Aref Mirza, director of the legal department at the Ministry of Labour, told Gulf News.
Rest of the article is worth reading. The directive to government departments not to retain passports is dated 2002.
Isn't this place great? :mrgreen: :mrgreen: :mrgreen: Chocoholic I called the British Embassy about it, and they basically just said that's the way it is here. It's not supposed to happen, but is common practice. Chocoholic I think there is a big difference between a company holding passports for 'safe-keeping' and withholding them. Many places will just give them back if asked. Personally however, it's my persoanl property and I wouldn't like anyone else to have it. Chocoholic The can't and they won't. kanelli Yes, they can. They officially inform the UAE government and the public that passports from their country are not allowed to be kept by employers at all. All a person needs to do is show the official letter from their government and tell the employer that they are not authorised to give them their passport and the employer is not authorised to hold it. fayz
- kanelli wrote:
Yes, they can. They officially inform the UAE government and the public that passports from their country are not allowed to be kept by employers at all. All a person needs to do is show the official letter from their government and tell the employer that they are not authorised to give them their passport and the employer is not authorised to hold it.
But the reality is the employer will find another employee. I know one real instance of this, the lady said no I'm keeping my passport the said thank you for stopping by and went to the next person on the list.
I'm lucky as I’m an independent and am very specialized in what I do (only 4 of us in the world) but I work closely with many very smart,successful,educated people from many walks of life including fellow Canadians who don't have their own passports.
Is it right? absolutely NOT!!! kanelli That could be true, but this plan could definitely work if all the other embassies also issued the same letters. It must be worth their time to do this, because of all the people complaining to them about the employers keeping the passports and other problems related to that. tomato almost happened to me.. good thing i got it back before its too late.. now they wont give me my salary coz they wont let me leave their company argh!!! they can stuff their mouth with their money hope they'll choke on their own sh*t Chocoholic The British Embassy will do nothing, I called and asked them about it and their reply was simple, 'It shouldn't happen, but it does, and there's nothing we can do'. MaaaD Yeah if anything the Ministry of Labor would be the one to complain to and not your embassy. MaaaD
- fayz wrote:
I'm lucky as I’m an independent and am very specialized in what I do (only 4 of us in the world)
I didnt know there are only 4 pimp daddies in the world sage & onion The amazing thing is, even though it has been clearly clarified by the UAE Government that and Employer is not allowed to hold the Employee's passport, if the Labour office comes to your office for inspection, you will be penalised if you are not able to produce all of your employees passports. ineedacoolnick S&O... are you sure they check for passports, and not for labor cards?; which is what each employee really needs. Thing is if a company takes your passport, they keep the labor card. The employee actually should have both, but rarely happens! sage & onion
- ineedacoolnick wrote:
S&O...
are you sure they check for passports, and not for labor cards?; which is what each employee really needs.
Thing is if a company takes your passport, they keep the labor card. The employee actually should have both, but rarely happens!
Currently what they do is demand to see the Passports and they have an unbelievably bad attitude as if everone is an illegal.
My Employer, ensures that all of the people regardless of Nationality retain their own Passport & Labour Card. I guess we are one of the few. fayz
- MaaaD wrote:
- fayz wrote:
I'm lucky as I’m an independent and am very specialized in what I do (only 4 of us in the world)
I didnt know there are only 4 pimp daddies in the world - fayz wrote:
Big Pimp'n with MAAAD skilz :lol: :lol: