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Emirati Homegirls


sniper420
Liban ever since u reached the coasts of Dubai u have been recruited by a terrorist group. So bad to see a moderator talking shit like death to zionists and all the crap . Well Shakirah what's Sufism then?
Chocoholic Hey Guys, Just wanted to share this as it was brilliant! Was sitting having some lunch with friends yesterday, when all of a sudden we hear Daddy Yankee's 'Gasolina!' blasting out all over the place. So we turn around fully expecting it to be a group of young lads getting on down to the funky tunes. Instead we see a group of young Emirati women in a little car, hands in the air, heads moving to the beat. They all had their abiyas on - very pretty by the way with gorgeous embroidery. And they're going nuts to the music. The scary thing was the windows to the car were all closed, but the music was sooooo loud. I swear everyone around did a double take, it was so funny and unexpected. You go homegirls - whoohoo! yorky500 Hahahahahaha, well funny. Just as side thought, but I often wondered if we were able to turn our music up in the car, given the fact that we are in Mourning! Even the footie is not being shown in some bars. aduberdu well even the emaritis local gurls do wana enjoy their life........but they are forced by their customs r traditions.........so they cant and as they have their whole family over here....so they are also afraid to be seen by their relatives........every1 does have their own rights.......but yeah its not normal seeing them doing these things :wink: fayz hahahaha that is so awesome, you go girls!!! AhmedBinAbdullah lol Linda_Stuiv
I suppose that was Choc's point :)
People have fun (men or women) in their own way defined by their culture, and needn't be defined according to one way (western or not) certified by the West, for it to be true fun.
I have been invited to a "Majlis" of local women, and it was SOO fun, and unexpected for me. A big room where women have their privacy, can talk,scream, play (innocently :P ) without a boyfriend snooping in to bother.
It's like a "Girls' night out" all the time all year round :) Now that's fun and different. sniper420 Choco did you note their appearences? Can you describe em? I can be their DJ :lol: yorky500 Hey guys and gals, Don't get me wrong. I have no qualms with people enjoying them selves, it was just this happened when we are supposed to be in mourning! :lol: :lol: Chocoholic Hehehe, Sniper420, you're funny! Well from what I could see they were all pretty girls, gorgeous abayas and seemed to be having fun. Yorky, yeah that was the thing, when everyone else was deathly quiet, the music was mentally load, as I said the windows to the car were all shut, so the noise in the vehicle must have been deafening. But very funny to see!

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yshimy Choco, Similar experience happened to me in the newyear's eve. It was so crowded and streets was very slow new Hayat Regiency and was trying to go into the shandagha tunnel and i was in my car with a friend and this X5 black Beemer just stood beside us in the busy traffic and the tunes was all over the place and it was very high and i was just joking with my friend and started to dance on the tunes and didn't notice or even check who inside the car, and suddenly they rolled down the glass and it was 2 Locals in Abayas in front and in the back i saw 2 gurls with their hair out and they were chillin as you were saying and they kept screaming HAPPY NEW YEAR and waving with the V sign with their hands. hehehe, it was amazing i just replied Happy new year and they kept repeating it and then another Abu Dhabi plats lexus just kept running after them and i just quite at this point as i had to go into the tunnel. Everyone have fun, some times in private, sometimes in public. Cheers all shaakira What exactly is brilliant about this ? Its nothing to be proud of, its something more to be ashamed of, it just shows how further we are moving away from our religion, and what is more disgraceful is when our very own muslims condone these actions and think its something great ! This is a mockery of Islam and its very obvoius coz it was "so funny" as choc stated.Start thinking fellow muslims! sniper420
well yeah but those girls were among the pretty girls and were observed by another bunch of pretty girls (choco and her gang) and I truly beleive Choco is straight. So no infridgement of any laws unless any male like moi cast an adulterous look on em. Is it Shakira? Oh by the way did u see the poster of new shakira album? yeah yeah that Eve style one. I see the baby reaching for something other than the apple. LOOK CLOSELY... :lol: shaakira And since when is music permitted in Islam brother sniper ? we have an alternative to music : Anasheeds Liban Sniper is not a Muslim. So why call him brother? And you are right, such music is forbidden in Islam. Liban Sufis are heretics. They are not true Muslims. Linda_Stuiv A mystical dimension of Islam. Most of the followers of such "schools" are of the Sunni sect. The Sufi school of thought believes in purity and a personal bond with God reached through meditation, prayer and avoiding different "sins". There are 4 main sufi "teachers" , Al-Rifai, Al-Jelani, Al-Badawi, and a fourth guy I can't recall. Sufis are generally respected because of their role in spreading Islam in Indonesia and the Philippines. Nevertheless, it seems that some myths have mixed/new "schools" have started that contradict with the basic fundemental rules of Islam, but the followers of these are basically the poor and uneducated. You don't need a muslim to answer that :) Also , as I understand, music that involves sex/violence..etc, is "Makrooh" (Hated), not "Haram" (forbidden). But then again, different schools of thought may differ on how "not allowed" it is. Liban Also, since when are moderators not allowed to express their views? This is Dubai, part of the UAE, part of the Arab Nation. A Nation that has been stabbed countless times by the West and Israel. A Nation that will rise up one day and take back its pride and its lands. sniper420
HAHAHA freedom in speech in mideast? kekeke. Just recently isreal banned robertson eVENTHOUGH he insulted Arabs and at the same time poor Sharon. Yes Liban u dont know $hit about me so like ur avatar $uck ur thumb and drive ur echo :x. No Linda Sufis aint uneducated. If u go to Turkey many ppl are rich are followers of Sufism. What's ur opinion of Shias Liban? MUTAAH? yes temporary marriage. MMM let's start another topic on that.
Linda_Stuiv
When did I say that Sufis aren't educated?
What I said was:-

I was referring to the newer groups that have emerged in Egypt and Morocco and Pakistan.
A good deal of Sufis, are still adherent to the basic "route" set forward by the initial 4 "schools" I mentioned above. One of these is the one started by Ahmed Al-Rifai, which people in Syria/Turkey usually follow.
Nevertheless, I highly doubt if your personal observation encompasses ALL the sufis in Turkey. You might want to check up on it. kanelli
The Arab nation stabs its own people and is bitterly divided because of religious and political factions. The Arab nation has stabbed Israel, just as Israel has stabbed it. Neither one should be claiming moral superiority.
In case you haven't noticed Liban, the UAE wants the West to be involved in its development. Liban
Temporary marriage thing is retarded.
I'll stop there. Liban
1) The Arab people who are the children of the Arab Nation are united. I get along with all Arabs and them with me. We are one.
2) Arabs never stabbed Israel... I dunno what you are talking about.
3) The UAE wants the West to invest for its money of course. But just because I allow you to buy something of mine or borrow it for money doesn't mean I love you... When the UAE has had enough of the West it will disgard it like dirty socks. kanelli
All three statements are false.
I certainly hope you won't be returning to Canada. It is a country that needs people who are tolerant of other cultures. You are best to stay in an Arab country and don't buy anything made in the West, or created with Western technology, lest you be considered a hypocrite. :lol: arniegang I will just say one thing IRAN - IRAQ war!!!!!!!! :D Liban
All three statements are CORRECT. It is a shame that you are quite misinformed my friend.
I doubt I will be returning to Canada. I will most likely be remaining in an Arab country with my Arab bretheren.
What is created by Western "technology" is OK to use for the following reason. The Arabs launched the western development movement back from the time of the rennaissance, so no, it is not being a hypocrite. kanelli
Very humourous. I suppose there has to be an excuse for Arabs who hate the West to continue to suck up Western culture and buy and use Western-made products and technology. :) Liban
Why don't you just leave Dubai.... Because quite honestly you keep slamming Arabs and Arabs are the owners of these lands which provide expats with good money and decent that many would never see in their own Welfare States.
Who is the hypocrite? Now thats humorous :lol: arniegang well said Liban :wink: Liban :hello1: kanelli Once again, inaccurate statements. I slam intolerant Arabs who spit hate at the rest of the world. I am living in a Muslim country, so I dress conservatively and am respectful. I am learning about the language, religion and culture. Unlike some who stereotype about the West, I don't paint all Arabs as evil terrorists. I have not said anything to attack any Emirati or other Arab: I only point out that those who spend all their time hating and believing the warped propaganda that religious fanatics tell them are sad and mislead. My views are not going to be popular with hateful people, but hey, this isn't a popularity contest. Liban
Inaccurate for you wish to see things that way.
As for stereotyping the west. I would suggest you read some of my posts. Let me repeat myself for you since you cannot read well.
I said earlier today the following --> Many westerners I cannot stand because of my experiences with them. However there are quite a few very nice, warm, and friendly ones that I like and get along well. As such I wish them no ill will and God's protection Inshallah.
Your views?? Go tell that to all the Arabs who suffer because of US foreign policy either directly or indirectly and see what they think of your American "utopia". kanelli I hate US foreign policy, and I don't think the US is a utopia by any means! Did you read my initial post? You are the one says that you spit on the US and Israel. I won't even get into a discussion about Israel because I know it is sensitive and I understand both sides of the conflict and why there is continued hate. However, the US is made up of people and if you are spitting on the US, you are spitting on the people. Liban
Dude it is you that doesn't read my posts properly.
On many an occasion I stated that when I refer to the US, I refer to the government, the evangilicals, and likeminded folk. Now do you follow? :shock: kanelli Technically the government is elected by the people, although it does seem that elected officials are acting on their own behalf once in office. They just steer the people to think how they want them to. I think the Americans (and probably citizens from many other democratic countries) are too trusting and blind when it comes to their elected officials. Bad governments should be voted out, but it hasn't happened yet in the US. Speaking of evangelicals, did you read the 7 Days from yesterday? Two articles on two crack-pots - Abu Hamza and Pat Robertson. The world would be a better place without those guys poisoning people's minds. Liban
I agree with you 100% on the first paragraph.
As per the 7 Days article, I did not read it. I have heard of the latter, only because he is pissed that Israel returned a tiny bit of the Arab lands it stole in 1967, so Israel banned him...
See dude, we can have conflicting thoughts... 8)
My invitation to a sit down and to discuss why I say (on the political level) what I say still stands. shaakira sniper is not a muslim?!?! had me fooled! As for Sheikh Abu Hamza, I think he voices alot of muslims opinions, he and his family have done more good than bad, once again the media has turned him into something he is not. Liban
Sniper is not Muslim at all. I suspect he is either a Zoroaster or a Jew.
What is the deal with Abu Hamza... I don't follow...
Someone enlighten me... :? shaakira Sheikh Abu Hamza Al Masri, read all about it ! sniper420
Well said, Liban is one of those old days fools who talks so much but when it comes to action it's so little. U r in UAE under the veil of Canadian passsport and bcos of that u get high wages. If u had come from Lebanon directly to UAE, I bet by Jove, u would have got lower wage compared to a Canadian. Now tell moi where is the love between the Arabs sniper420
alrite Kanelli said "Arabs who hate West" now Arabs here love the West. Go to a store and get 10 local arabs. Give em to choose arab made "Kun Kun" sauce and West made Heinz sauce, i bet by Jove atleast 8 will choose Heinz. Kanelli doesnt complain about the arab culture and crap so she isnt hypocrite. U Liban holly crap, I bet by Jove ur ass was under non-Arab made chair while writing those hyprocrital comments. Arnie toooooo bad being a Brit u dont even get the argument. Tres mal...... :lol: sniper420
Sniper throws his sniper rifle and takes double barrel shotgun and smashes Liban's head like water melon. Blashpemous brat! Shakira when did I fool u? and y isnt a non-Muslim a bro? I have seen many so-called muslims like Liban do faaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaar worse things than non-Muslims. If anytime they would legalize the punishment given to a traiter during the Dark Ages. I bet by Jove, I would have Liban wiped 121 lashes, drag him around the town with bunch of donkeys, put him in 55 degree water, flay him alive and when the heeart is still beating , take out the heart and show to everbody, cut his head and put it in the gates of city so as a warning and give the body to dog food processing company. :evil: Liban
Interesting reading... Linda_Stuiv



Who's "Jove"? arniegang Its a sort of english "slang" phrase Linda Used many years ago by the "upper classes" ,"by jove" was pronounced in a rather superior upper class sort of tone. I think it eminates from /linked to Jehova, however not in a relious form i may add lol. It was used in relation to a response in converstion meaning "shock,horror or surprise" It is not really used nowadays, but you will hear it used in old English films. One of the quirky saying /meanings in our language i'm affraid lol sniper420
Another meaning of God arniegang
Once upon a time there was a really nasty man. His name was Saddam. He was the boss of a big country called Iraq. This is a place where lots of Arabs live. It used to be called many many years and a long time ago Arabia. There is a story you children might have heard about a nice man called Ali Baba - and he had a majic carpet, but he was not friends of another nice man called Aladin, and he had a majic lamp.
Ohhh we have gone off the story children, sorry.
Anyway, this nasty man Saddam who was the boss of all the Arabs in the big country called Iraq, said to his people one day.
"I am a big Chief Arab, and i want to beat up some other Arab Countries". so the other people said "Ohhh big chief Saddam, we dont know which country to beat up".
Then one little man who was a smaller big chief Arab called Chemical Ali, said to the people "Ohhhhhhhh i know, we can go and beat up a very little Arab Country called Kuwait".
Ahhhhhhhh the people shouted, "lets go and invade them then, shall we?".
Then the big nasty man Saddam said "yes, we will do that, its a really good idea, and Kuwait wont be able to defend themselves, and.... they have got lots of oil"
One of the crowd shouted "what is oil?". Nasty Saddam replied "ohhh my friends, oil is magic black fluid, it is very good because we can have lots of money, when we sell it"
Another man in the crowd shouted "goodie does that mean we can buy lots of nice things like extra food and nice clothes and yummy things"?
Suddenly, the big nasty man called Saddam, shouted at the crowd in a very nasty voice " NOOOOOO we will NOT buy NICE things, we will buy lots of grown up toys like big aeroplanes and big guns"
"Why not nice yummy things?" shouted a small boy from the back,
Saddam shouted back "becuase i want those big nasty toys to hurt other Arab countries with, thats why!".
So the next day the big nasty man called Saddam, called all his big brave Chief soldiers, into his house and said
"ok men today we are going on a little trip and taking our Army into the little Arab country called Kuwait".
One of the Chief soldiers said
"Mr Saddam why are we going to do this, they wont just let us in and take all their magic oil will they?, and dont forget they are Arabs?"
The big nasty Saddam looked at him with his very nasty eyes and shouted
"shut up you stupid little man, i am the boss, you will do whatever i say or i will cut your head off"
All the room went silent.
Later on that day all the nasty man's nasty army went into the little place called Kuwait. When the really nice people shouted "no go away you nasty men", the nasty men got even nastier, and then used their really nasty toys called guns and shot the really nice people of Kuwait.
The rest is History children Chocoholic
Do me a favour!
Abu Hamza is a disgrace! He was living in the UK sponging off the Government for years, living in a house costing a fortune with his family for nothing at the tax payers expense. He was illegally claiming benefits, and was allowed to spout his views of hatred outside the Finsbury park mosque. He was quite happy to condone the killing of innocents in all the suicide attacks in the UK and other countries. The guy is chicken sh** living in luxury in the UK whilst saying how much he hated the place, well he didn't go to an Arab country did he? What a hypocrite!
The man is where he belongs, behind bars, facing charges of assisting terrorists and inciting racial hatred.
Bakri is just as bad, he's another one who lives the life of Riley in the UK, went to Lebanon, got arrested and kicked out - also facing charges.
People like this are a total disgrace to muslims and anyone who supports them is totally blinded and brainwashed by them. Chocoholic Going back ON topic! Everyone is entitled to a little fun. It's only music. It's things like this that need to be re-addressed by many people. Some things just aren't condusive to 21st century living, we're not living in the dark ages. Linda_Stuiv
Aww thank you Arnie, that was a quick reply (only 15-16 minutes!! You must spend a lot of your spare time on the PC!). I was beginning to think that you (and the majority of "us") were ignoring my posts, but thanks for setting me straight :) Liban
Crusty english snob expression.... Today its not used and sounds plain gay... Sniper420 is probably trying to tell us something by using that word :P Liban
Whats your point here? Oh thats right, you have no point as usual. samy_solo
Hey, we gave you 'westerners' jobs, business opportunities, and a safe haven to live in!
Funny, all you low life racist have the audacity to insult us in our own country! Your kind will simply will not learn - Don't bite the hand that Feeds You. And don't think you’re scarce; in fact many of you are very disposable! If you have a problem with my country, my religion, or my other fellow Arabs just do yourself a favor and get the hell out!
Thousand just like you are waiting in line to have the opportunity to SERVE us!
Bothers you what I'm saying huh, poor thing - Not used to Arab speaking to you this way huh. Get one thing in your thick head - your kind gave us nothing, we ever we have he Bought from you so get over your colonial attitude.
To others reading my comments, if you respect our traditions, culture, and way of life we have absolutely no problems or issues with you – just please do not try to impose what you view as ‘western values’ in our country as we do not share the same principles – that’s doesn’t mean we can’t respect each other, In fact we always welcome those who come to us in respect. Linda_Stuiv I dislike the tone, but I agree with the content. Now before anyone jumps to the fray: If a European/American tells a rude/disrespectful immigrant/foreigner that the EU is sponsoring/feeding him/her, then it would be completely accepted and normal. Yet now that samy said the same, just wait for the fervent attacks, how dare you insult "westerners" ? :) I admire people who say it like it is. Liban I agree with the content too. kanelli I'm really tired of people assuming that as a Westerner I can't handle any negative comments from an Arab or whoever. I don't treat Arabs or any other group of people different than another. Your comments only reveal your ingorance about Westerns. Not every individual on this planet is the same - so quit the stereotyping. It looks to me like you are the kind of person that can't handle a negative comment by a Westerner. As I have said previously, I am very respectful as an expat here, and I dress and act according to the culture and the people. Other expats might be rude, but I am not. My comment to Liban and other extreme Arabs who spit hate at the West is to mind that they don't act like hypocrits by picking and choosing what they want from Western culture and technology and then claiming to loathe the West to much. Liban I love it how I am still being called an extremist... Must make real extremists chuckle at the thought... 8) kanelli Sorry, Liban - I keep saying extremist because so far you and Jamal seem to be the ones with the most extreme views here. Maybe if I knew what your defition of extremist is I can refer to you differently. Linda_Stuiv
Okay

This is the most mediocre arguement of our time (And I truly mean no offence.
Science and technology do not "Belong" to the East or West, or South or North. Science/Technology is a living body of accumulative knowledge that everybody contributes to, and therefore, no body can claim "ownership" over it.
The journey of science/technology (which translates as products) has started from Ancient Times, and every contributing civilization -in return- has the right to brag. Everybody bragging about the exact same thing is stupid.
Therefore, if you're bragging about the West's achievements (or even mentioning something as a "Western" Achievement) infers that you are not aware of the common sense principles I stated in the above paragraphs.
I contend that a good deal of the scientists/researchers coming up with the newest advances, are not Western at all, what difference does it make?
You'd probably say: "Oh well, they might not be western, but they were recognized and nurtured in the West, therefore the Western system is superior"
Also a logical fallacy, The West happens to hold the superior position in Science and technology right now, but it wasn't always that way, and it will not remain this way either.
When Liban voices his "loathing" it is not of the West as a whole, but of :
1-The policies practiced by most Western Governments towards this are aof the world (and bear in mind that they're democratic, therefore blaming the western populations -which he did not do- would not be unfair).
2-The Western social system (which -let's face it- is decaying/decayed by any standard). Now that's the West's business, but when the West tries to shove that exact same decaying system down the rest of the world's throat, you can expect some resistance and bitterness.
What does that have to do with buying products? wheres the connection?
Europeans loathed the Islamic Empire, but yet spent decades studying the scrolls and books muslims left behind in Spain (Andalucia), does that make them hypocrites?
And this "loathing" is by no means exclusive to the Arab/Islamic world. I've heard people saying the same thing in Japan, China..etc. Even people in EUROPE are bitching about the American way of life forcing its way and eradicating the unique european identities. (Look me in the eye and tell me I'm wrong).
The great shadow of the Israel/Palestine conflict also looms and increases the tension. So please understand, before you jump to label someone an "extremist" just because he/she doesn't really like what you're used to. kanelli Okay Linda, fair argument. Perhaps I was over-generalising about what hating the West should mean in one's behaviour, including the products and services they use. I'm a huge believer about what you said about not stuffing culture and values down other people's throats. Unfortunately, this is happening on both sides. For example, you have religious clerics like Abu Hamza saying that Islam should take over the West, and you have the West trying to force democracy on countries that aren't ready for it. Both are unfair and unrealistic. Liban Linda sums it up well.... An extremist is like Bill Grahm... Or Pat Robertson... or GB... sniper420
well westerners are here for money and dont give a damn on ur culture. As long as they are getting money and enuf to retire they wont even touch the dates and camels $hit and no no no not even the donkey. Arab nation was at its peak at 15th century. Now it's even worse than those daays - arabs tose days welcomed foreigners, were hard working & modest most of em. Now from gulf to iraq all are praying to God to send a messiah so they can unite arabs under one banner....so keep praying. meanwhile pay us good so we can work hard o sell u good weapons and toys. 8) Linda_Stuiv I'm ecstatic :) we're actually having a discussion without somebody trying to turn it into a flame war. Am I in the same forum? :shock:
(Edit: Damn ..... Sniper has gotten online .... )

Hmmm. Everybody seems to be reading that "7Days" issue. 8)
1-The power of which the two parties (East/West ...etc) are not equal or even comparable. The West owns and controls most of the media/military/economy/policy ...etc. The East (And specially muslim countries) own none of that. So it wouldn't be fair to presume the knowledge of what a muslim/eastern would feel, because you weren't subjected to the same "campaign".
2-Abu Hamza is nothing but one mere individual with extreme views. He only represents himself, and not a wide array of muslim sectors, that's for sure.
However western Governments/scholars/humanists/historians/media outlets, are generally -one way or another- utilized in the enforcement of that "Global" (when it's really western, not global) set of "values" that are deemed -wrongfully- uniquely western.
Every civilization has it's own unique way of expressing Love, intimacy, human life value, freedom. That way needn't resemble a model that should be certified by the West to attain credibility.
To label the "Other" as one mass of seeving fanaticsm is so unjust and ignorant.
The West's "throat shoving" is by no means exclusive to democracy ...... I'm at a loss to where to start concerning this. I mean I wish that it had only been enforcing democracy in countries which the West itself has nurtured the dictators.... It's much much more than that.
Let's just say that a prime example is you labelling Liban an extremist because he expressed an opposing view (outside of the realm of western-western arguement). You're not alone, and it's not your fault. Everybody where you come from does the same, individuals and enterprises....
Do you realize the amount of pressure when 20% of the World (Muslims) are all labelled extremists because of views that do not necessarily confirm with the Western experience and historical course? Need muslims walk that same path? I'm filled with incomprehension as to the unspoken policies/actions taken by our governments and elites. kanelli If someone says that the West should fall and the Arab would should rise to overcome their oppressors - you don't consider that extreme? Linda, I feel that you spend most of your time defending the plight of the Arab world, and don't often try to give a balanced view. Do you have any insight into or understanding of the West's behaviour? For example, it is wrong to force democracy, but once you have lived in a democratic political system, would you really want to give it up? Should Africa, Asia, and the Middle East have some countries that suffer under the crushing rule of dictators? It is up to the people of those countries to free themselves, but can't you see why some Western countries would support the overthrowing of dictatorships? This is clear as day to me - and I can admit that meddling would be wrong, no matter how tempting it may be. I'd like propose that big business is more of an evil than just naming Western countries as tyrants. The West is practically run by big business and its quest for wealth and expansion. sniper420
well said. Linda's love for the handsome Syrian guy had turned her blind. kekeke . I am jking. Linda u have to see the negatives of Liban's statements. He is hypocritical MOSt of da times. kanelli
Yes, to me they are extremists. Doesn't let you off the hook though ;) Linda_Stuiv
No. I'm sure that Indians had the same sentiments concerning the Brits. French had the same concerning the Germans (in WW2)...etc. Wanting an ill fate to your oppressor is normal human behaviour. WHat's so extreme about it?
I always try to give other examples so you can get an unbiased view at things. If it were Zimbabwe oppressing Ghana, and you met a guy from Ghana who wished that Zimbabwe would fall, you'd understand. Why not if it has to do with the West? Because you're Western? Dissociate yourself from your background so you can see more clearly.
And by the way, when some Arabs say "The West", they say it casually, they don't really mean EVERY country in Europe/North America. I haven't met an Arab which has a beef with Germany, or Belgium, or Canada ...etc.
I mean Bin Laden, of all people, just shut up about Spain as soon as it removed it's forces from Iraq. The worries these people have are specific, not just general anger and extremism like our media spins it.

Actually I always try to give a balanced view. My intention is not to defend the Arabs or Attack the West. I have critisized Arabs/Muslims on this forum quite a few times. But also I'm a self-critique, and despise the "herd" mentality. If I see anything wrong with anything, I try to express it.
Since most of the threads occuring here are turning into an East vs. West battle, then I judge by the points mentioned, but I do not take sides.
And yes, I do have a pretty good insight of the "West's" behaviour. It's funny that you mention The "West" since westerners themselves rarely use that word. Most of the deaths/wars have occured between Western countries themselves. There is no West. The cronies in Washington (and elsewhere) try to imply that there is one "front" called the West to rally the people ...etc. I know that a lot of Brits can just love Arabs as opposed to Germans. I know that the Dutch seem to like dark-skinned immigrants from the Dutch Antilles more than the French ...etc.
I use the term casually so people would get what I'm saying.

Interesting, you really seem unaware of the long bitter history between Muslims Countries and European (and later the US) countries ....
It is not limited to "demcracy" spreading. Actually it's a very small part of it.
Lemme sum it up. Who are WE to be the Arabs' NANNY? WE do not have any cridibility. The French/Brits were racist/colonial occupiers less than 50 years ago. WE are not TRUSTED in this region of the world.
Also considering our economic priorities and historical past, you'd be really naive to think that any country with a capitalist/cosnumerist economy would just rush to some desert to "free" the people.
Yes, our media and education convinces us that we have always been (and still are) the "good" force in this world. But our history (and current policies) are VERY FAR from that. The rest of the world aren't supposed to have the same conceptions/mis-conceptions WE have about ourselves...
It's day-clear to me that there are other "agendas" to be enforced after the dictators are removed. That's the way we are. We are not altruistic ... we go for our own benefit, which is fine, but lets not pretend otherwise. Or else it becomes a charade. Having said that, it is understandable why Arabs/Muslims are skeptical of the western role.
Europe was the one that disintegrated the Islamic "empire" in the first place, and created artificial borders and passed out entire countries in posh meetings in Paris and London, not to mention supporting dictators, creating Israel...etc. How do you expect these people to trust anything a successor government would do?
Just a little piece of info very little people know (Arabs or westerners), The Arab governments post-colonialism, in the late forties and early fifties, were pretty much Pro-USA, since it was a country with no colonial past, and of which was colonized itself. Arab leaders used to praise the US system and wish for a transformation similar to it. But 50 years of complete idiocy/corporate interest/special lobby influence has made those people hate the US. kanelli
I am not unaware of these facts, and I am not disagreeing with you.
What I disagree with is religion being used in what is now a political and economic problem. We are not in the crusades anymore, and churches all over the West are not calling for the destruction of the Islamic world, unlike what is happening in many Mosques... There are religious extremists in every religion, but the rise in popularity of extremism in the Islamic faith is startling and scary. I hope it doesn't create a rise in Christian fundamentalism and then lead to religion becoming touted more in the political and economic dealings. That is the worst thing that could happen. Western countries need to smarten up, and I think the strong political lobbying that is going on on the part of big business is a huge threat. I am angry that the government panders to these special interest groups because of money and political power to the detriment to ethical and moral conduct towards its own people and other nations. Linda_Stuiv
I entirely agree with you on this.
Also we must not forget that the nature of Islam as a religion, is different to what we're familiar with.
Islam seems to cover more/and play more role in the lives of Muslims, than other religions do in the lives of their adherents.
Therefore I expect Islam as a religion, to remain a major player in muslim countries' politics.
I think the real problem lies in the fact, that although "extremist" Islam is not representative of the majority of muslims, yet it is the one being advertised the most in the media, which creates the false illusion that most muslims believe that.
But who's fault is that? Who owns the media? You can guess.
And by the way, by "Extremist" Islam I don't necessarily mean armed movements, because I do believe that sometimes it is necessary to use force to regain your rights. Whether the ideology behind that is Marxism, Democracy, or Islam is irrelevant. kanelli Yes, I too realise that Islam will have more of a role in the government. This scares me because there is a big danger in turning religions upon each other. Many Western countries favour a separation of church and state, but is perhaps an impossible task for primarily Muslim countries. I also fear for other Muslims of different factions because it seems there is too much intolerance between the different factions. There needs to be harmony. I think the media does focus too much on the Islamic terrorists, but when non-extremists are using religious rhetoric against the West, perhaps it is difficult for people to recognise whether that is a mark of extremism or not. This is of course, related to the issue above - the lack of separation of religious issues and political issues. ----------------------------------------------------- Sometimes I think aspects of Western culture are in decay, but that doesn't mean that Islam is the solution to the ills of the world. Christianity and other religions try to regulate the behaviour of followers just as Islam does, but this doesn't necessarily work. kanelli REQUEST FOR MODERATORS This thread has gone far off track from Choco's original subject. Can we splice this thread and put the back half of it into a brand new thread with a new title? sniper420 moderators of this column are long dead and having deep slumber. I guess admin will have to do it. gamechee
[color=blue]First of all I would like to address to all the people who are advocating for democracy.
If the concept of democracy is 'majority wins' then who decides that the majority is right and if they are right, then what happens to the minority? The reality is that the minority is crushed. Is that a just system? So does that mean you have to follow the majority even if you dont believe in them?
For example Indian being the biggest democracy in the world has far more bigger problems then that of here. Majority of people are illiterate and dont hv access to basic amenities or to atleast get three proper meals a day.
This again is because the elected leaders are corrupt and who selected them? THE MAJORITY. The minorities are crushed and then there are revolts and clashes which works against the progress of the country.
Having said that the sample principle works for the world as a whole. We should be tolerant and respect each other.
This certainly doesnt mean that I support any other form of gov but these are questions which have been lingering in my mind for a long long time...
If something works for you, its not certain it will work for me so will democracy not work in the UAE. The first and foremost reason is that the local population is small in number and whatever they are doing is to protect their interest. Its their land and they have a right to it.
Peace out!
[/color] Dubai Knight
Been taking a back seat on this one so far...my poor little fingers would just drop off if I tried jumping in! Anyway, Kanelli and Linda seem to be agreeing more than disagreeing on points at the end here!
Anyway, Gamechee, you seem to have slightly confused 'democracy' with 'majority rule'. There is a subtle difference. There are various electoral systems used around the world in democratic process. The simplest is the 'First past the post' system which is what you refer to as the 'Concept of democracy'. This is the way it works in the UK: everyone has a vote and whichever individual politician in a local area gets more votes, then he represents that community in the general assembly (parliament) the political party that wins the most 'seats' then is appointed to govern whilst the other parties are 'in opposition'. In a 3 or more party system, the opposition can actually have more combined seats than the goverment. It is called a 'Hung Parliament' and there are often co-alitions formed. This is was case in Germany under Gerhardt Shroeder. The ruling party makes the policy and then relys on a majority to vote for their implementation. In a hung parliament, the government can have policy rejected by the ruling assembly. In the UK, since the times of the English Revolution, we have a dual house system and any policy approved by the parliament still has to have a higher approval by another set of 'independent' monitors before becoming a part of the statutes. This is the House of Lords.
There are other more complicated sytems such as 'Proportional Representation' where the parties, rather than the individual politicians, are allocated seats depending upon the total number of votes cast by the whole country. This provides a fairer representation for a minority but often results in a divided and less efficient ruling government.
The US system has a progressive series of voting where each political party gradually sifts through the presidential candidates until a main running candidate for each party is selected to run for president, then it is a straight dash for the line to see who gets more votes (this is a very simplistic description for the sake of this post as the US system also includes the election to the Senate and the House of Representatives which is a further complicated regional process)
In all systems, the actual process of 'government' is often handled by the civil servants who run the individual ministries and departments within an administration. These often remain in their posts, no matter who actually runs the ministry, as they are regarded as operational specialists in running these often large beurocracies. The government ministers are 'figureheads' and 'policy makers' rather than overall controllers. It can make the system very cumbersome.
Regarding India, yes it is the worlds largest democracy, however there are other influences in that particular country that are outside the political sphere and these pre-date any constitutional democratic system, which was only introduced after independence in 1944. The 'Caste System' has been prevalent there for centuries and may always be a part of their society. It remains unaffected by the democratic process, however a similar autocratic heirarchy was in existence in Europe for centuries. The aristocracy ruled most Western European and Eastern European countries until democracy effectively removed their totalitarian control and made the system fairer for all people. They are effectively reduced now to nothing more than ceremonial duties and, in countries such as France, they were all but wiped out in the Revolution in 1789. Interestingly, Spain was under Facist rule until quite recently, when it RETURNED to a monarchical state. It did not affected the democratic process and Spain has a duly elected parliament and government that actually runs the country.
There are still many countries around the globe that operate successfully under a monarchy, we live in one here in Dubai. Brunei and Malaysia are 2 more examples, however there are some African countries who are under a more totalitarian monarchical rule. A democracy in the UAE would not neccessarily work as the actual percentage of locals is lower than the transient immigrant population. This would be an imbalanced system and the one we have now is undoubtedly the best solution for the country as it stands.
I hope this has cleared a few of the points you are unsure about and look forward to seeing your comments!
The Force be with you!
:wink:
Knight gamechee Thanks Knights for elaborating on this issue but without going into details I would say that sometimes people have completely made mockery of the system of democracy. For example UK going to war even when the majority of population was against it. Leaders and gov post holders stood against it but nothing happened and the troops are still in Iraq. On second thoughts if UK is a democratic country then what is the Royal family still doing there? The Queen fancies a tunnel across the english channel and billions from public money is spent. The project turns out to be a failure. To conclude there are flaws in everything and there are some in the D system. Dubai Knight
This is only one of the problems with democracy, but then no system is perfect. No-one but a complete idiot wants to go to war, however the system decrees that we (the people) voted them (the government) into power, therefore we have given them the power to act on our behalf. It is called a Mandate. If they decide that going to war is in the interests of the country, then we have to abide by it. There has to be a majority of consent within the government before it can happen, but the people may still not agree. All that happens is the government gets kicked out at the next election and we get a new set of useless idiots to run our lives.
Our Royal Family is a powerless entity. This power was removed when the parliamentary constitution system was introduced after the English Civil War about 600 years ago. The Queen is just a figurehead, she has no say in the running or the political side of the country at all. She certainly didn't decide to have a tunnel...that was a purely political issue introduced by the beurocrats, approved by the beurocrats and screwed up by the beurocrats. It was actually an Anglo/French beurocratic cock up. Sometimes they work (Concorde) sometimes they don't!
I heartily agree with you, Democracy is as flawed as any other system but at least it has more opportunity for a free society than Communism or Facism.
Knight SheikhaS Cant believe how far this post has gone!!! :lol: Didnt it start with "Emirati Homegirls"??!! :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: arniegang nought new there SheikaS Lionheart
:salute: Chocoholic Now that really is a crap attitude! Thank goodness there are very few nationals that think like this moron. If all the expats got up and left tomorrow, this place would grind to a halt. It's been built on the hard work and sweat of foreigners and lets face it no national is going to work as a labourer is he - think about that next time you make a dumb comment like that! Yes the place is a great place to live and work 'for some' and no people are not here to 'serve' you either! These are human beings we're talking about. You're attitude is shameful, I'd like to ask what this guy is contributing to the UAE, because for sure there are many expats contributing more than many nationals. Like I said luckily this guys attitude is rare - loser! kanelli Yeah, I really should just ignore those racists who call me racist. :lol: The poster is just another hater who tries to slam Westerners whenever he/she gets the chance. We are here for advancement of my hubby's career (and maybe mine too) and a new experience living in a completely different part of the world. Choco is right in saying that this place would grind to a halt if all the expats left. That would leave 20% of the population to take over jobs in all the businesses, schools, homes, transport, construction etc. etc. Many of the expats here aren't determined to try to change the culture. If it is issues regarding human rights and laws that apply to us expats, of course we speak up - wouldn't you? Are you suggesting that there should only be a pure Emirati culture here when over 80% of the population comes from somewhere else? Very unrealistic. I still stand by my words. Anyone who hates the West should stop buying goods and services produced in the West. Put your money where your mouth is. 8) I took "some Arabs" out because I don't just mean some Arabs - I mean anyone who loathes the West. Am I still going to be called racist for saying this? Probably. :lol: By the way, I would drive many of you nuts if you saw my shopping habits. I have a long list of goods and services that I won't buy for political, ethical and evironmental reasons. I'm not perfect, but at least I try to put my money where my mouth is. Chocoholic Good on you Kanelli, at least people like us try to do something for the causes we believe in. Unlike some other people who're all words and no action. And I agree with what you say about western bashers, they yap on about it but still enjoy all the western things they buy and have at home. Ask them to give up their big cars and gadgets and fast food and they'd be crying like babies. gamechee i would say samy-solo has been a bit harsh and insensitive. Nobody is bothered about serving you guys. In reality uae has invited people by developing this country and creating opportunities. And who has helped them in developing this country? So it works both ways! Sorry to say but the arabs still consider the westerners as their masters since they were once colonized by them. They may deny it but unconciously they still do. Facts : - They would treat a westerner like god but at the same time treat an asian like a piece of shit. - They would pay 4 time more to a westerner for the same job. - Majority of the locals get educated in western universities and bring back western values when they return back and still they preach about their own culture which they themselves dont follow. - They call themselves Muslims whereas dubai is one of the worlds biggest market of flesh trade YOU GUYS ARE BIG TIME HYPOCRATES YOU DONT BELIEVE IN EQUALITY OF HUMANS YOU DONT PRACTICE WHAT YOU PREACH I know some arab will come up with some justifications just to prove me worng and to satisfy his own ego. Please bear in mind that many people are unhappy in uae because of unjust and unfair ways of handling issues. Every person has self esteem and wants to be treated equally. If people are coming here to work then they have their own reasons. Peep into a labourers life and you would know what kind of problems they have. Their intention to come here and work is not to SERVE YOU but to earn money. It is infact YOU who is exploting them by taking advantage of their situation. You underpay them, you oppress them, so what are you talking about? Making big buildings and growing grass in desert is not a sign of advancement. Your social system is what really matters. Many civilisations have taken to the top and perished and left behind are the ruins. We should check back in history what really caused their destruction and learn lessons from it. Vice and oppression will always be followed by retaliation. When you take technology and from west then you should also pick up the finer points. Like in the UK they have given asylum to thousands of people. Majority of them have no skills and are no good but still they are given an equal status as any other citizen. They are given opportunities and taken care of. I've heard some of 'em saying 'If you dont like it here then go back to your country'. What kind of escapist attitude is this? This means you cant handle it and show a dont-care attitude. This is about peoples lives and not a candy barter! Sorry for being blunt but somebody had to tell you this... let it be me... Dubai Knight OK, two points in one post: One: a quick trip to Kuwait should put everyone straight about the situation here: Just to the south east of the city, there is an area called Fahaheel. It is the traditional home of the Kuwaiti fishing industry and the main fish market is still located there in a new, shiny and very expensive development with a mall, entertainment complex etc. Incidentally, this development was concieved and created by a local Kuwaiti developer at great cost. No more than 3 kilometres from there, the local Kuwati people are living in traditional tents in the desert, of their own choice, however they can be found every day buying expensive technology, clothes and food in the shops of the new mall. They visit the cinema to watch western films, they eat in the Pizza Hut restaurant and drink coffee in Starbucks. Just outside the new mall, there are a host of 'traditional' shops, restuarants and coffee houses...that are now empty. This proves that, no matter what anyone says here about not wanting western values or systems to influence the middle east, the reason they are here is because of demand. Yes, the local Kuwaiti people there choose to live a strictly traditional Bedouin lifestyle retaining their heritage and values...but also choose to enhance that lifestyle with products and services from the far east and the west. It is therefore hypocritical to suggest that these products or values have been 'forced' upon an unwilling society. Historically, people will only adopt a new way of thinking if it is better than the one they have now or if it truly works. Two: Back in the 1970's the government of Saudi Arabia declared that their process of 'Saudisation' was complete in key industries and vast numbers of ex-patriot workers and advisors were told to leave the country and their contracts were summarily cancelled, their places being taken by the Saudi nationals who had been trained and educated by them. Within 6 months, almost all were re-hired (on larger and better salary packages) as the country nearly came to a stand-still. Yes the nationals had been trained, however they were unwilling to actually 'do' the work they were trained for. Who's fault is that? The western advisors (many were from far eastern countries too) or the people they were there to help? There are double standards in every culture, but to try to believe that the middle east culture is any different and therefore perfect in every way, is a misnoma. Dubai and the UAE has it's faults, but here the rulers have the sense to realise that, in order to be a force in the GLOBAL community, rather than the LOCAL community, there has to be a cosmopolitan population and international standards. This means admitting to themselves that, sometimes, other countries and cultures have a better answer than themselves. Its called humility and wisdom. It is also making their own national population better able to understand the international cultures around them and breeding a future sense of tolerance. Knight Chocoholic Great posts Gamechee and DK, very informative! and very true. gamechee Being partly involved with the advertising industry I know what it takes to sell a penny worth of Coke for a pound. Its all about hype and mass propagation which makes flavoured soda, which is not good for health, sell like anything. The masses are quite vulnerable to media and usually accept whats infiltrated into their minds day and night. And so is DEMAND created. I have seen people pay a tenner for some stupid soda drink when they could get a healthier orange juice for a fiver! Why do they do that? Just because they want to follow the trend (which has been conspired!). Secondly the presentation of the product and how it makes you feel. Ever wondered why you shell out 600 dirhams for a pair diesel jeans when you could get something similar but unbranded for a mere 100 bucks? Its all about how you campaign and present it. Over the years I have observed that the modus-operandi used by any evil power to control any community is : - By manipulating their history, educational system and language - By influencing their culture - By controlling the youth Like in turkey where the original written script which looked like arabic was changed to a script in which the alphabets looked more familiar to english. The outcome was that the new genaration lost touch with their old books and whatever was translated was given a particular direction of thinking. I am not too sure but i think but a similar attempt was made to change the Swahili script of Africa. One more attempt was made to change the script of the Urdu language to english in the 70s. The biggest asset to a country is the youth. It can either help a country to flourish or get ruined . In some countries the youth is absolutely indulged in football, wine and women. This is a conpiracy so that the young minds dont think beyond a certain point. If they start thinking then their would upheavals which could lead to revolts. They say you eat, drink and be merry and leave the rest to us! Don't bother if we kill thousands of people in Iraq for no reason but to get their oil. You just eat, drink and be merry while we make our money... Perhaps some of them were cheering n enjoying an Arsenal vs Manchester United game on a 50 inch plasma in some downtown bar, sipping pint after pint of good 'ol guiness, when somebody's 14 yr old daughter was repeatedly being gang raped. Mission accomplished innit? Disclaimer : I hv nothin against any country, community or individual. Its just that I am against any evil be it oppression, inequality or violence from anyone or any side. Shdnt we all b against it? i m sure v all r. I am in favour of peace, brotherwood and flourishment of all fellow human beings. Lastly arsenal or MU fans, ppl who enjoy guiness and ppl who use the word 'innit' pls dont be offended as i hv nothin against u or the above said things :) Chocoholic Sad to say that the youth of today innit are out of touch with many things, they don 't care as long as they have their computer games, hoodie tops and baggy jeans with the crotch down around their knees. Young people in the UK are awful, I certainly don't miss them, many are tearaways without discipline from the parents of teachers or anyone else. It's really sad, it's like young people today have no goals or anything to strive for. Look at Iran the majority of the population are under 30!!!! And doing their own thing underground away from the hardliners, when they outnumber them by so many they should be rising up, using their voices and standing up for what they want. I dispair of kids these days I really do. Liban No matter how much I may disagree with the general social fabric of the West today I must interject.
West bashing has become a popular sport in the world (not just the Arab world). Some of it is based on fact (ie. US foreign policy) and some itsn't (ie. all Westerners want to kill Muslims).
People who claim to be true to their religion (the monotheistic faiths of God) cannot at the same time condone mass murder or global hatred of all things different.
You can say, "I hate the West's policies of supporting Israel" and that would be fine. But you cannot walk around saying "we should gas all Jews" just for the hell of it.... Obviously I would say to "do onto others what they do onto you" or "an eye for an eye, a tooth for a tooth" which is an element of the monotheistic faiths. For every action, there is an equal and opposite reaction (Newton). But would I be correct to say "an eye for an eye", for example? Well I would apply this sparingly because no matter what, someone will always hurt you bad, but what good does it do to hurt him equal? If someone kills your dog, whats the point of going out to kill his dog? Thats what I mean... Just be careful in life.
Now lets get back to the basic topic being discussed.
I would like to ask the perpetrator of the comment about foreigners out of the UAE if he/she ever heard of the Global Village? No one country can isolate itself from the world and expect to prosper. If a country like Canada deported all immigrants and non-whites, the country would crumble. Same applies here. We are all linked and need each other. Protectionarism doesn't work today...
Here is a practical historically based example:
- World War II. The USA decided in the begining to keep out. As was in line with its isolationist principals (fortress North America). But alas, it could not keep out as Japan made it involve itself (Pearl Harbor).
Another example:
- Zimbabwe. This country is a bread basket. It is fertile, it is rich in food and very productive. Then Mugabe (twat) decided to kick out all the experienced farmers who were working in their fields for so long to replace them with others throygh intimidation or violence. Look at Zimbabwe now... The "bread basket" is poor and hungry. All that because they decided to close off their country to anyone who was not "local".
Now you may say, "Oh Liban" these are weak examples. So I will just respond to you "thats your opinion but I doubt you are correct".
What is a local?
People in Normandy or Alsace (France), or Western Checz Republic, or North East Greece, or Israel or the UAE even, are they true locals? Migration, nomadism, and tribal culture are human traits that cross the races, breeds, and cultures.
People, we are all local, we are all of this world, and we are all God's servants.
All I can say is, we should respect conservative cultures prevalent in the Middle East (generally speaking) and try to perhapes sway more liberal cultures to "return to the flock" so to speak (ie. stregnthen value system and less "s.e.x." stuff (for lack of a better word.
Sorry for this long thread guys but I was out of town all weekend so I have to make up for things :) Liban Shoot... That was one long post!!!!!!!
Did, I type all that!!! :D Dubai Knight
Obviously, you did! And I have to say that this is possibly the best post I have read on DF to date! Thank you!
The migratory history of the human race means that we are all linked and we are all inter-related. That makes us one brotherhood and thus an integral part of the planet eco-system.
A surgeon knows, we are all the same colour underneath the skin.
:lol: :lol: :lol:
Knight Liban We are all the same. We all came from this earth...
Sheikh Zubair (didn't you know Shakespear was an Arab :lol: :lol: ) even said in one of his plays (Shylock?)...
If you prick us, will we not bleed....
We all will bleed RED ... When an Iraqi mother loses her child, she will cry... When an American mother loses her child, she will cry...
When we are all babies, we all see angels and are pure....
Shame on those who raise the babies to become Mugabes, Bushes, Hitlers, Ben Gurions, Ho Chi Mens, etc... Shame shame shame!
In the late 90s, we had a song called Arab Dream (Helm al Arabi), a pan Arab song grouping all kinds of Arabs singers for peace and equaliy amongst ourselves. Kinda like Live Aid.... We now need another Live Aid... A la 2006 :) Liban Merchant of Venice... Thats the one :) Dubai Knight
"Antonio, What news from the Rialto?"
Work of genius, but not as good as 'Twelfth Night'...absolute scream that one!
:lol: :lol: :lol:
Knight Liban Yes... Shakespear plays are quite the...umm.....ahh...cough...ahem...scream :P Dubai Knight
You have to read between the lines sometimes. The political jibes and jokes all refer to the situation at the time when they were written. Many of them were openly challenging to the autocratic monarchy and were almost like cries and encouragement to the underground movements who circulated amongst the artists and creatives of the period.
Some of the more political plays can be hard going (Julius Caesar, Coriolanus) but the comedies were delights and highlighted some of the more obvious inequalities in Middle Ages British society.
Knight



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