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Dubai controlling US ports


MaaaD some guys over at the US are nervous about Dubai controlling their ports: ,2933,184599,00.html ofcourse in a great show of american ignorance they see this as a threat to the national security. Instead of thinking that oh ya Dubai has been able to maintian no security threats in a region where not one country has been immune to terrorist attacks, so maybe they might actually help us ! nooooooooooooooo they are Al Qaeda funding/terrorist loving A-rabs
MaaaD btw i wrote letters to the editors of the three websites, i encourage you to do so too. shafique I've been going to the States on business every year since 2003 - I'm amazed at the view most people there have of the outside world.
You may have heard that a healthy majority* of people thought that Iraq had something to do with 9/11 - I'm not sure whether this notion has changed since the polls were done (about the time of the invasion).
*(something like 70% of people asked, if I remember correctly)
Anyway - I predict there will be more protectionist policies enacted as the US economy implodes over the next few years/decades. We are seeing the waning the US 'empire' / sphere of influence / 'civilisation'.. it remains to be seen whether there is a peaceful transition to China or whether it will go kicking and screaming...
Students of history will note that civilisations/empires go in cycles and that as empires go, the US on course for having one of the shortest reigns at the top - it shone brightly, but burnt out quickly. Compare this with the British, Islamic, Roman, Greek, Egyptian etc empires that went before.
Note that 'empire' is being used here to indicate the power that comes with control of economies and means of production, which historically has meant ruling areas of land, but recently is done via economic subjugation (ooh err missus - a bit of politics there...)
[gets off hobby horse]
Cheers,
Shafique arniegang Shaf You appear to be slipping in quite a bit of humour of late. You ok mate?? :wink: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: shafique Arnie - Just a bit de-mob happy at the moment, trying to juggle handovers at work and finalising all the bits and bobs required for a wholesale relocation! I'm amazed that everything's going smoothly thus far, but I'm certainly feeling the stress and I'm using the forums as a pleasant distraction. .. :) cheers, Shafique arniegang I can tell mate in the tone of your posting. Also you seem to be posting rather a lot in work time you little scamper :wink: :wink: Richard Owl Mirror Hello to All, My name is Richard Owl Mirror and I am an American who does have grave concerns over this port deal. The point most people are missing regarding this deal is that a company run by a Government can alter their business practices dependant upon the construct of the ruling Government. That being said, it is not advisable to have a company which can change it's practices based upon who holds the Keys to the Kingdom (so to speak) Now the current Leader/Ruler, Crown Prince Sheik Saad Al Abdullah Al Sabah (as of Jan. 2006) might be a great person and friend to the United states but, what would happen if he were to fall from his Role and another not so popular or friendly person assumed control of your country? With the wave of a hand, YOUR COUNTRY could disable 8 of MY Nations ports, stifling commerce and trade. Not to mention that 2 of the 8 ports are used to move 40% of the US Military equipment today. One other point, your Federation is controlled by leaders of city/states which could alter the balance of reason on a moments notice. Why should America be subjected to that amount of uncertainty ? shafique Richard, firstly welcome. Could you explain to me exactly how the company could 'disable' the 8 ports? This is a genuine question, not rhetorical or sarcastic, just exploring how you came to this view. P&0's revenue is largely from the Far East, the US ports only generate 12% of the revenue. The deal is really to cash in on these ports and the US ports come along as part of the deal. Also, I take it you are aware that ownership of the ports will still be in American hands. To use an Americanism - 'where's the beef'? I look forward to your views. Cheers, Shafique Richard Owl Mirror
Thank you for the warm welcome shafique
Now, I'm stating a hypothetical here but, one that must be considered.
Let's say that a change of attitude were to appear within the Ruling Government of the UAE toward the US. All that would be required of this DB World is to simply place their resources in mothballs. Simply closing down operations is a business owners right.
In America we have a law which states that the Military is forbidden from operations on US soil.
IF the above were to occur, my nation would not have the legal authority to take over those assets during a time of crisis.
People in my Country are not scared or frieghtened that this deal would allow terrorists into our country or that shipments of WMD could make their way through these ports, furthermore the citizens of this country are not racists as is being reported. We simply wish to ensure that another Government can not change our way of life.
Which, theoretically, this deal could do if nefarious forces were to assume control in the future.
The current Administration will not be in power very much longer !
And the same can be said of the Rulers of the UAE. shafique Thanks for your reply (I'm not American, so excuse any stupid questions I may ask) 1. Can you clarify what the national guard is and whether they are authorised to conduct operations on US soil. 2. Aren't you just as at risk from industrial actions - say port workers striking - as you are from say Dubai Port Authorities deciding to make it difficult to operate the port? I'm still struggling to see what is causing the anxiety on your part? What could the Dubai port authority do to 'change our way of life'?? Many thanks, Shafique

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Richard Owl Mirror
The National Guard
The United States National Guard is a significant component of the United States armed forces military reserve. The Militia Act of 1903, also known as the Dick Act, organized the various state militias into the present National Guard system. Because the National Guard remains under the authority of the states (unless called into federal service), it should not be confused with the reserves of the various services which serve primarily as training units for replacements to active component forces.
I am currently working on presenting Congress with a proposal to remedy this problem.
Under STATE authority, the National Guard may undertake actions which are otherwise forbidden of the US Military. This problem was made manifest during the New Orlean's debacle of Hurrican katrina.
There was a dire need for a Military efficiency directive during this disaster and yet, by law, the president was forbidden from sending in the much needed assistance due to the Law Enforcement clause known as the Posse Comitatus Act.
The various State militia were permitted to conduct search and rescue activity as well as police actions EXCEPT that there was debate regarding if they were under Federal Control or not.
at risk from industrial actions
There is a US legal clause which deals with this at the presidential level but, when Military assets are in question we must defer back to the Posse Comitatus Act.
The Great Debate ongoing in my Country is, why we should set ourselves up for this Constitutional crisis.
I have just completed writing on an American Forum a question which I pose for others to consider.
You may find it of interest also.

IF DB World Ports were simply a foreign owned company, the above concerns would not be present. shafique Thanks for clarifying what the National Guard is - and good luck with your efforts in lobbying Congress. Can I ask why the underlined phrase gives you cause for concern? Would you still have a concern if the word 'Arab' were substituted by 'Japanese', 'European' or 'American'.. How are 'Arab causes' any different from 'European causes'? If you tickle an arab, does he not laugh... :) If someone said their aim was to preserve the 'American way' - would I be right to interpret this as promoting the Timothy McVeighs (sp?), the Ku Klux Klan, southern rednecks etc etc - or would that be an unfair stereotyping of 'American causes'?? Or perhaps there is some other concern with the stated aim to promote national causes of the nation the speaker belonged to? With all due respect, I'm still struggling to see what the issue is. I quote from today's Evening Standard in London, pg 24: "US port industry leaders are baffled by the national security claims. They say security is handled by government agencies and has little to do with who actually runs the ports." Do you disagree with these leaders? Cheers, Shafique Richard Owl Mirror

Because unlike the American example, I read 'Arab causes' the exact same as 'Islamic cause' which today seems bent on destroying Western Civilization.
As you rightly point out, there are many flavors of American's as there are Arabs.
The viewpoint from this side of the Pond is that most, if not all Muslims see it as their solemn duty that Islam rule over every individual.
That 'cause' is not America's 'cause'.
In the minds of those who are consistantly attacked by islamic fundamentalism, an 'Arab causes' is interchangable with 'Islamic cause' .

Are you implying that this deal is merely so the UAE can 'count beans' ?
While it is true that our Homeland security as well as the Coast Guard handles the bulk of any Security measures, there are many many more security related issues which I could address as well as have addressed previously.
Manpower in employment, work stoppage or closure of a vital interest, etc...
There are many national security concerns that are not taken into account by these so-called experts as they are simply counting security forces and not these other security risks which are not as well defined.
I can not sit here and make the claim that the Rulers of the Federation of Arab States in the UAE are not friendly toward America. After all, they apparently have cooporated with the US forces after Sept. 11th, 2001.
That doesn't mean that underlings do not harbor sympathies for those who would do us harm without these rulers knowledge.
Personally, I do not trust either the UAE or my Government to protect this Nation.
Let's take as an example, pre-911 history.
1) The emirates was one of just three countries that established diplomatic relations with the Taliban once they took power in Afghanistan.
2) In February of 1999, Afghans working for the CIA said they had located Osama bin Laden in an Afghan desert hunting camp used by royalty from the United Arab Emirates. A C-130 military plane owned by the UAE air force was at the camp. The Sept. 11 Commission's report described how a planned missile strike on the camp was called off to avoid killing anyone in the UAE ruling families , which could jeopardize U.S. military ties with the emirates.
3) Two of the Sept. 11 hijackers were from the UAE.
4) Abdul Qadeer Khan, father of Pakistan's nuclear bomb and later the head of a global nuclear black market, based part of his operations in warehouses of Dubai's Jebel Ali port.
5) UAE is a DRUG transhipment point (& money laundering)
http://www.cia.gov/cia/publications/factbook/geos/ae.html
And much, much more .................
Now, like I said, those at the top might not be directly involved TODAY but, how can Americans rely that will remain the case :?: kanelli ROM, it has been interesting to read your posts, but I still don't see what the beef is. The official word from the US government is that there was dialogue about the concerns of some people, but there is no objection to the deal. Even though two 9/11 hijackers came from the UAE doesn't mean that there is a grave danger to port operations in the US on the part of DPW. If it also an issue that possible terrorism money flowed through Dubai, I'd like to point out that money for terrorism has been flowing through many countries, including the UK. I disagree that Arab causes can be interchanged with Islamic causes. shafique ROM, as with Kanelli - I continue to fail to see any justifiable concern. You equate Arab with Islam - a fair equation in the most part - but then seem to be equating Islam with terrorism and as an enemy of the Western way of life. I will be charitable and put this down to a misunderstanding of the religion and the people who follow this religion. There are over one billion muslims in the world and many of these muslims live in the West. We see no contradiction with the teachings of a fundamentally peaceful religion that teaches justice, tolerance and respect of human rights. You could judge all Catholics according to the actions of the IRA who blew up innocent women and children who were out shopping, you could judge all Hindus by the actions of the suicide bombers (women mostly) in Sri Lanka, you could also judge all Israelis by the actions of the first parliamentarians who were complicit in the first modern day terrorist action - the blowing up of the King David hotel.. You could judge Americans by the actions of David Coresh, the KKK etc. You can similarly judge all muslims by the actions of Al Qaeda. Suffice to say that I find myself, for once, actually agreeing with President Bush on this issue - there is no reason to be concerned and all reasons that you have come up with haven't convinced me, or kanelli for that matter :) Take care Shafique Richard Owl Mirror

Yet, those in the Leadership of those 'other' countries have not been complicit in assisting that money to flow.

I disagree as DPW will be afforded visa's and entry to our Nation with little to no review of the personel being sent.
And why would our CIA sign off on this company being exempt from retaining their paperwork in this country when for every other company it is mandatory?
Again, why would the CIA exempt DPW from designating an American citizen as a contact person in the USA when for every other company it is mandatory?
These two glaring points are very suspect in my mind.
Perhaps DPW is a CIA-company and this is why these restrictions were removed?
Sorry but, this whole deal sounds much too shady for me to rely upon for the security of my family and fellow citizens. sniper420
Well if ur country was so concerned with the security why the hell did it sell the ports in first place? It should have been nationalised. rich ppl getting thick and fatter...... sniper420
HAHAHA Typical American citizen mentality. That's the reason ur @ss is getting wacked more than Canada

Blah Blah Blah........ There are many countries where the money did flow to terrorists' accounts. Uae does not even account 1/3rd of the drug flow compared to Columbians and otehr South Amerocan crap. As far as Nuke is concerned, UAE didn't transport nukes to North Korea , if it did they would have notified USA. If the deal does not go on, then it will further divide the American and Arab interests creating even more problems.
Did u know less than 20% of the containers coming are checked ? If this is the case, then the ships coming from other countries have the risk of carrying dangerous materials. kanelli
I've heard nothing about any of your claims in this post. Were you reading something in particular that gave these facts?
Where is the proof that UAE leaders were complicit in assisting the money to flow? I'm sure you are well aware that the UAE is made up of approximately 80% foreigners. The UAE is very liberal and has been building free zones and developments to house businesses and expats from around the world. If the UAE leaders were so anti-US - why would they be doing so much business with the US. Why would they funnel money into terrorist activities on US soil? I'm very skeptical about UAE leadership involved in terrorism funding.
I've never heard about any restrictions being removed for DPW. You'd have to send me a link to what you were reading.
Richard Owl Mirror
()...
()
Appendix A: The Financing of the 9/11 Plot
http://www.9-11commission.gov/staff_statements/911_TerrFin_App.pdf
(simply type in UAE under the search function of the above PDF file) MaaaD
more at :
Richard Owl Mirror

Corporate take-over usually do not result in the deaths of thousands, possibly Millions of people.
You folks seem to think that our fears are due to the Ruling Elite of your Country or their participation in this Company, that is not the case.
IT IS the infiltration by terrorist-minded people in your society, employed by your government and state-owned companies which raises questions about MY Security.
This particular deal grants your country access to Security knowledge they would not have otherwise because of the involvement.
That knowledge can not be guarenteed to remain a secret from our enemies.
So please quit with the RACE CARD hyperbole and deal with the facts that in YOUR Society, there do exist people who wish to murder innocent people and WE will protect ourselves from that happening to the USA again. Liban bla bla bla kanelli ROM, you are paranoid and buying into all the Islamophobia. If a UK company can run port operations in the US, why can't a UAE company? There are Muslim extremists in the UK, just as there are in the UAE. Terrorism money flows through the UK, terrorists flow through the UK. Extremists could be working at the ports and the airports in every Western country etc. There is no evidence of increased danger with a UAE company running the ports. MaaaD Liban bisharafak what kind of answer is this ? kenalli thank you ! Richard Owl Mirror
True but, the above company Leaders did not support the Taliban, Usama bin Laden while also running the ports.
How can you claim that I am bitten by Islamophobia simply because I have seen evidence of your Ruling Leaders being friendly with the man who perpetrated and financed the killing of thousands of innocent people in my country?
Perhaps the rulers of your country should have had a 'Cheney moment' while THEY were out hunting with Usama bin Laden in Afghanistan prior to his murdering of thousands of my countrymen & women?
You might be able to brush aside the A Q Khan activity as having been hidden from their view but, how can you hide the facts that they collectively supported Usama and the taliban prior to the attack on America?
Besides, the above mentioned companies were NOT State-owned companies.
I am sorry but, we in America just don't believe that leopards change their spots. fayz It wasn't anyone in the government or even part of the royal family that was hunting with Osama, just some guy. This is where your cloudy glasses of America are confusing you, You think because a guy wears a white dish dasha he is a royal or a leader? I bet you don't even know why the white house is white. kanelli ROM, It is interesting that you thought only a local Muslim could express the views I expressed. The leader of my country is Stephen Harper (unfortunately) and he certainly wasn't hunting with Osama or any other terrorists :) I'm also not Muslim. Sorry, but I haven't seen any credible evidence to suggest that the rulers of the UAE or the company leaders of DWP have had anything to do with supporting terrorism. Again, you seem to forget that many of us on this forum are working for multi-national companies who have been welcomed to Dubai by the rulers and business leaders. We are living amongst Muslims and can tell you that this is a moderate country. If the UAE is crawling with terrorists, why hasn't there been an attack on the huge population of Westerners here yet? Richard Owl Mirror
Considered an ally now, UAE backed bin Laden

kanelli And here is the rest of the article that you left out.
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
"The United Arab Emirates was becoming both a valued counterterrorism ally of the United States and a persistent counterterrorism problem" the commission wrote. It said President Clinton personally pressed United Arab Emirates leaders to break financial and travel ties with the Taliban, but they refused.
Hamdan bin Zayid, United Arab Emirates foreign minister, told a U.S. diplomat that his country maintains relations with the Taliban to counterbalance "Iranian dangers."
Those dangers are one reason that the United Arab Emirates stands as the United States' best military ally in the Gulf, opening key parts of its country for U.S. operations.
Its Mina Jebel Ali port, the largest man-made harbor in the world, hosts more U.S. warships than any other rest stop outside the United States. CIA and FBI agents collect intelligence there on militant Islam. The United Arab Emirates has cooperated with the U.S. Treasury Department in shutting down bank accounts linked to al Qaeda.
"The United Arab Emirates is a country that's been an ally in the global war on terror," Defense Secretary Donald H. Rumsfeld said on the Michael Reagan radio show this week. "We have a port there where they help us. They have an airfield. We share intelligence, and we have a partnership that has been very, very helpful to the things we do in that part of the world."
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
Lax rules meant that terrorists were able to travel and access money. So what? There are lots of lax rules here, and who would have guessed that money and terrorists from the UAE would have taken part in such an atrocity as the attacks on the Trade Towers and Pentagon? It was a world first. I'd like to remind you that the US was pretty lax when it came to sharing info between the CIA and FBI - resulting in those organisations sitting on their asses while terrorists took flying lessons and continued to exit and enter the States to carry out their evil plan.
The article may not even be correct, but if it is, it clearly mentions the reasons the Emiratis gave for visiting Bin Laden. How do we know what was being discussed? Why would the UAE be so cooperative with the US with anti-terrorism measures if it was secretly bank-rolling terrorism? Also, the article clearly mentions that the UAE has been cooperating in shutting down bank accounts associated with Al Qaeda.
If the UAE were complicit in terrorism and terrorism was rampant here, there would have already been attacks on Westerners, and many companies would have pulled out.
The politics in the Middle East are complicated and leaders of countries are often visiting and socialising with dictators and tyrants in their region. Western government officials also visit dictators and tyrants around the world! Richard Owl Mirror

I am not implying that EVERY Emir is complicit, it only takes ONE person to deceive the others.
Listen, I would love if the United states were not the target of militants
Fact is, this deal gives 'somebody' with those intentions an opportunity to subvert the intent of the Rulers.
I wish it were not the case but,Muslim support or SILENCE in regards to these activities has harmed relations which otherwise might be good and beneficial. kanelli ROM, anyone can plan and carry out terrorist attacks on the US. The DPW running the ports is no more of a risk than P&O was. Radical Muslims in the US are more of a terrorist threat than an Arab company running a business like they would do anywhere else. MaaaD ROM the US govt funded and trained Bin Ladin in the days he was fighting the USSR. I wouldnt trust them to run your ports either then :) fayz And don't forget who armed and trained Saddam. US foreign policy is sadly the best ally to terrorism. Richard Owl Mirror

Believe me when I say, I DO NOT trust them either !
Wanna see what frightens me about this current government running MY country ?
Beside the OTHER 51 blog entries, this one is my greatest fear for my Democracy.
sniper420
HAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHA. After reading his crap I was laughing like half an hour. The population of UAE is approximately 4 million - the same as Toronto. I bet by Jove by comparing crime statistics , Toronto has way higher crime rate compared to whole country. U can't and never prevent terrorism by blocking a company to take over the port. if the terrorist can use the ship as weapon, for ur info only 20% of containers in US are checked so terrorist can use some other ship.
U r one of those fools sitting behind the screens and getting paranoid by ppl living in UAE compared to criminals in ur OWN backyard. Dude u NEED A vacation to DUBAI and then u can BARK.. HAHAHHA. :lol:



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