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Basic Human Dignity ?


zonker so what I am trying to decipher is this: should religion be a personal thing then? or rather a group of people trying to impose it upon us, telling us how life is to be lived....just trying to clear up some confusion in my mind considering that i am in the company of such intelligent people!
BlackburnRovers Let me get this clear; I fully understand why there are laws against unmarried women giving births. What I do not get at all is how people expect a hospital to turn away a woman in labor pains, just because she is not married?
Is it prescribed in our religion that such births shouldnt be supervised so that the child/mother are at serious risk of death?
Note: I am not complaining about the arrest; I am complaining about the fact that the hospital was expected to turn away a woman giving birth from its doors and call police.....
Isn't this basic human dignity?
Sharjah: A woman was arrested in a private hospital after she confessed to having given birth to an illegitimate baby, police told Gulf News.
The Iranian woman, in her late 20s, went last week to Al Zahra hospital to give birth. The woman, who was in labour, went alone to the hospital, which admitted her.
"The woman paid Dh5,000 to the hospital as delivery charges," police said. Immediately after she gave birth, the hospital informed police that the woman was not married. Police said the hospital should have informed them immediately.
"They should not accept such cases of unmarried pregnant women," police said.
A spokesman from the hospital confirmed that the woman was admitted to Al Zahra hospital a week ago.
"She was in labour so she was admitted immediately to the operation room," the spokesman said. The spokesman said there was no time to inform police.
"We have to charge her for the delivery," he said.
The spokesman said when hospital staff asked the woman about her documents and her husband she told them she was not married and that she was giving birth to an illegitimate baby. "At this point we informed police," he said.
The woman was taken to Al Qasimi hospital where she was kept for a few days. The woman and her baby are now being detained at Sharjah central jail. The woman has not revealed the name of her partner.
"We have to check if she is here on a visit visa or with her family," police said. The case has been transferred to the public prosecutor for further investigations. Flying Dutchman
I don´t. It is one of the craziest and sickest things I ever heard about...laws against unmarried women giving births...Well at least they didn´t give her lashes in Sharjah, or did they? BlackburnRovers What I meant was that unmarried women giving births translates to relations outside marriage, at least in the UAE. So as much bad as it sounds the mother may be arrested after birth. However, my beef was with the belief that a woman on the verge of giving birth should be handed over to police instead of being allowed into a hospital simply because she was unmarried... kanelli This is why there are so many reported and unreported cases of dead and abandoned babies being found in the UAE. I guess the religious viewpoint in this country is that having s.e.x only in a marriage takes priority over human life. I wonder if God would really agree... BlackburnRovers
You are confusing the issues ....
Issue 1:
Whether people having relations outside wedlock are commiting a crime
Issue 2:
Whether a pregnant woman (who is unmarried) should be refused entry to a hospital and handed over to police
One can think Issue 1 is a crime and still care for human life (by not agreeing with Issue 2) Chocoholic This is a sheer and utter disgrace! kanelli
Many women who are pregnant out of wedlock who can't leave and birth in another country may try to stay below the radar here so they won't be arrested. This can make for negative outcomes for many babies... Metaphor79
Come on guys, there's no law that forbids a hospital from admitting a pregnant woman even if she's unmarried. It's just that the police have to be informed but such cases. For the safety of the child, the mother and the community. The child could be a result of a rape case, the mom might try to get rid of the baby, or the mom might get killed by her family in the name of the family's honor ( Damn ppl who do that)
UAE is a Muslim Arab country, these are the rules.
Chocoholic, dont get carried away. I know you better than this. :) Misery Called Life
You retard try being sensible for once. It's simple you could start by reading the article?
The cops clearly chastised the hospital for accepting the case.
The mom was not in the hospital to do an abortion, she was there to give birth, and only once the baby is registered can he/she leave the hospital.
And if you knew a thing or two bout women( which you evidently don't) you'd know that pregnancy and childbirth does not happen overnight!
Unless the woman makes a statement stating otherwise there is no need for you to make crappy assumptions.

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uaekid funny non of you ppl questioned why she was quite for 9 months ? beside no one turned her away, she delivered the baby and she is in a specialized jail for women with babies... where did they go wrong ? I can't see why you expect ( a country ) to treat law breakers who breaks the law on purpose !!! or is it just the usual bashing ? Metaphor79 MCL, how insecure do u feel??? you're very defensive and aggressive. You attack and insult others. What's wrong with you?? This is not the way to make a point. This is a very backward and barbaric way that can't come from mature and educated people. How old are you dude and where are you from and what do you do? You make a great case study. I'm very curious. PM me. Misery Called Life
I think it's you that's feeling insecure. I never attacked you, apart for pointing out facts. It's you that's resorted to name calling and such.
I only asked you how old you are? Owing to the immaturity of your posts.
Do try and read your previous posts.
It's hilarious to see you use words grossly out of propotion. Define barbaric.......
I'd make a case study? HA! For what? Do you even know what ur talking about? I mean if there was some one educated and qualified , then sure why not. From all of your posts on this forum, it's quite evident that you're someone who makes irresponsible statements and is seldom capable of logic. You are someone easily wayled, unexposed and hence mostly unrealistic.
That's the truth and it may sting! Metaphor79
Thanks for proving my point, again! Misery Called Life
I see this is you doing what you do best, Bowing Out! :lol: michaeldubai Sad and stupid. I think the hospital did the right thing by immediately admitting her. However, she and her child would now have to spend time in a cell - thats the dsigraceful part. They should have a special home for such cases. Metaphor79
Seriously dude, PM me. I need to see where all that anger and hatred come from. There's a very interesting story behind your attitude. Misery Called Life Metaphor, you are fast becoming the community clown. Quit rambling! And no that's not anger, it's simply me mocking you! Your vocabulary seems alrit on the surface, but most of the words you spit out are absolutely out of context. Metaphor79
I apologize for the inappropriate use of vocabulary.
So in the comfort of your home or office away from any personal or face to face encounter, you’re the strong guy on the forum; you mock, attack and insult others. You feel confident and really someone to be feared. Can’t blame you, after all you’re in charge in here, nobody can mess with you. Man! that must feel real good, right? Please tell me more about it.
silent if the lady didnt want 2 keep the baby she could easily do this,, but she waited 9 mnths and went 2 deliver so she wants it no matter the case she got it. I believe if their point of view and beliefs was islam and religious then they should quit many thngs going on in the country. bushra21 While the situation is sad, she did break the law in the end. I can understand how it would be difficult for most of us on here to accept, but the lady was admitted into the hospital and gave birth to her child. The cops are just doing their jobs. This is an Islamic country, and while certain religious aspects are overlooked to attract/satisfy the expatriates who come to work and visit here, you surely can't expect us to to abolish all our beliefs. In Islam, it is forbidden to have relations outside of marriage - meaning an unmarried woman giving birth is kind of a big deal, and her child wont be entitled to the same benefits that a married woman's child would. That's just how it works here because of our religion, which, coincidentally is all for protecting the woman and her best interests. Most may not see it that way, but that's what a majority of Muslims believe to be true. Of course situations out of the woman's control that would lead up to her being pregnant and giving birth is something different all together... bushra21 And before anyone brings up that some locals/arabs/muslims drink, date, and sleep with people re-read what I wrote... While it's true that they do those things, it is still against the law for them as well. Yes, perhaps the law isn't enforced on certain aspects (drinking) as heavily as having relations with someone outside of marriage, it is still against the law and religion and is expected to be followed. Leda Wht if she just wanted to have that baby whatever happens to her? What if she was above prejudicies and followed her God, not religion? Just a suggestion. bushra21
If she wants to have the baby, by all means let her - but it's still against the law here for an unmarried woman to give birth outside special circumstances.
If she followed her God, she would be following her religion and as far as I'm aware most religions are against relations outside of marriage - and again, it's still against the law here to have a child out of wedlock.
The law isn't put in place to force people to convert religions - if you read my post you should understand that. It is the law of THIS country which follows Islamic Shariaa and it SHOULD be followed. That's the way it works here and all around the world - YOU ARE EXPECTED TO FOLLOW THE LAWS OF THE COUNTRY, no if's and's or but's... sage & onion
Well said Bushra. Red Chief I just wonder how long she is going to be in prison win the newborn for such serious crime. Leda Bushra, read some books on the subject of imagination: helps narrow minded. Millions die because of ones like u, who struggle to understand that there is one God and those are religions that devide us. How convinient it is not to question the circumstances and yourself, just to follow the instructions, not even guidelines: no responsibilities beard. Very comfortable for hypocrites and cowards. Leda Those notorious cryminals deserve to be stoned to death, don't they!!! Red Chief Double post silent poor she,,, she sounds new to the country and mayb didnt think it will go that bad. wat is the situation f she was raped will the police belive this?? or they will tell her that she should told them in the same mint?? bushra21
First off, I am anything but narrow minded. Those who know me can attest to that as well as tell you I am far from being both a hypocrite or a coward as you so eloquently stated. I answered your post/suggestions in a respectable manner and would appreciate the same from you. If you cannot converse in a civilized tone and refrain from using name calling and wrongly labeling me - well, I feel sorry for you because it only shows how YOU are the narrow minded, hypocritical, coward that you accuse me and 'people like me' of being.
Now, on to the topic of people who believe in God but follow no religion, since as you say, religion was only set to split people apart.
Since I am a Muslim and have been blessed to have a parental figure who has not only devoted most of his life to truly studying the religion of Islam and how it should be practiced but also educate those around him on how to do so; I am confident enough in my knowledge of this religion to reference it when need be and will only speak on what I have read and studied of other religions (admittedly my knowledge in those is far less, so if I am mistaken anyone please feel free to correct me).
As a Muslim, I am not allowed to judge neither fellow Muslims or those who practice other religions or belong to the various other denominations/spiritual faiths (i believe is what it is called) - Islam is very clear on this and that ONLY GOD Himself can judge when that time arises. In Islam, individuals who practice Judaism and Christianity are referred to as 'People of the Book', and upon further reading/research into these religions it is obvious that all three (Islam, Judaism, Christianity) strike a remarkable resemblance to one another in many aspects of faith and the morals set for the followers to live by. It is my opinion, that religion is NOT to blame for the wrong-doings and dividing of people/nations, but the people themselves and how they interpret what is taught and set forth in these and many other religions - taking certain aspects of them to extremes. Just as there are both good and bad people in the world, there are (moderate)believers and extremists of all religions and walks of life.
Seeing as how Islam has taught me that, as you have previously stated, there is only one God - I do not understand why you seem to think I or the 'people like me' would struggle with understanding this. This is a core belief in the Islamic religion, which goes back to the previous paragraph in which I briefly state that as Muslims we are required to refrain from judging those of different beliefs and the similarities that are found in the basics of all monotheistic religions.
Those who follow God, yet refrain from adhering to a set religion/spiritual faith, I have found to also share the same moral code and ethics set forth by religion. This would take a much longer post and require more time on my part to explain in detail, but I believe - or hope that you are capable of understanding this simple concept and what it is I mean by moral code and ethics.
Now that I feel I have addressed your 'points', and yes I list them as 'points' because you seem to be just stating things as a form of attacking me rather than making an intelligent argument or debate, I have some suggestions of my own to give.
You mentioned I should read some books on the subject of imagination - I'd be more than happy to do so since I love to read and would welcome any suggestions. I suggest you read some books on how to effectively discuss an argument/debate, how to state and respectfully argue your beliefs, and most importantly some books on grammar and spelling. Leda Can't describe how sorry I am! bushra21
If she was raped it is a completely different situation and the police will deal with it accordingly.
Like I said, it is a sad case - there's no denying it, but unfortunately she did break the law.
I am still wondering why and how she kept this quiet for 9 months. That could explain a lot. Leda Sweetheart, I admit you are much better educated than I am, not even feeling ashamed of that. As we say, education doesn't make you smarter, it just broadens your horisons. Just want to mention one little thing: I DO NOT kick fallen ones, even Hindus, or whoever they are. Sorry, do not have more time to waste for brainwashed teenagers as I have to leave for work - the work I love and which, I hope makes some people, educated and not, "of the book" and not, happy.
P.S.: No idea what the books are on the imagination subject - never needed them. Use google. Red Chief I think this post will go to the "religious section" soon. To Leda: Don't read my words literaly. IMHO having kids is a natural right of every woman. There could be a different situation in life. I know a woman who is almost 40 and so it's probably the last time for her to have a healthy baby. For some reason nobody wants to marry her. I don't think that any law stops her from having a baby even out of marriage. bushra21
I'm not a teenager and have no idea where you got that idea from(perhaps you yourself are one and are simply projecting your own feelings of self-hatred and inadequacy onto me) -- nor am I brainwashed or any of the other remarks you continue to make concerning my personality, beliefs, or knowledge.
It is apparent that I am better educated than you since only someone of your caliber could comprehend my posts in the manner you have.
As for the rest of your post and kicking fallen ones and what not, well, I have no idea what you are trying to say. Just out of curiosity, of all the religions you could have chosen to reference, why Hinduism - is there something you'd like to say? Leda )))))))Hahaha, swap it fr Buddhism, if it makes u feel better. Chiao! Running away. sorry. Metaphor79
@ Leda- so the way you're discussing the topic makes open-minded and creative???
There's a person here who can be your perfect match. Misery Called Life. You two will make a perfect couple. You both share the same miserable insecure personality. bushra21
In order for me to feel better I'd have had to feel bad in the first place - sorry to burst your bubble, but your posts don't affect me much. I'm just amazed at your continually decreasing level of incompetence... zonker interesting discussion that I have been following as I was lurking. However, couldnt resist taking part. I was born into a muslim family too; what leda means by 'brainwashing' is when you are sort of bombarded from all sides by one version i.e that of Islam being the ONLY and ONLY right path to follow as you go through life. You sort of start to really believe that might be true. But it isnt of course. There was a time before Islam. There are other realities to the one we have been brought up to believe is cast in stone. The important thing is to understand the importance of upholding human dignity and decency. That should be the overriding principle. Throughout the world millions of children are being born to unmarried women, and nobody bats an eyelid. In a muslim country, it becomes a criminal offence. bushra21
Because as you said dear, it is a Muslim country meaning it follows the Islamic law (shariaa) which clearly forbids unmarried women to bear children.
I understood what she was referring to in regards to me being 'brainwashed'. I think I have proven my point otherwise - just because I believe/practice a certain religion or do not contest certain (unpopular as they may be) laws of a country does not make me brainwashed.
I do, however, feel extremely sorry for those who are unable to make decisions on such things on their own and even a little disgusted by those who relentlessly enforce their beliefs on others without allowing them other options.
Just because we may not like or agree with what happened in this case, I feel I have to repeat for what may be the millionth time THIS IS THE LAW OF THIS COUNTRY, SHE BROKE THE LAW AND IN TURN IS RESPONSIBLE FOR WHAT IS TO COME.
Added:
The law and religion hold that relations before marriage and consequently an unmarried woman to not bear a child for that very reason: to maintain her dignity. While it may seem absurd to many of us, especially in these times, that a woman as well as a man's dignity is somehow linked to their virtue, that is what the case is here. We may not like it, we may not agree with it, but that is what it is.
Everyone has, and is entitled to their own beliefs and opinions, what is right or wrong, or what they want to do - but in the end of the day they also have to follow the laws of the country that they reside in if they want to fulfill a less, i guess you could say problematic life. Misery Called Life
Do you live in a dollhouse, with a babysitter? You call this aggression? What if someone were to come after you in a LandCruiser with tinted windows? What if you were confronted by 10 goons? The panzy in you would yelp like a girl. And you talk about a face to face encounter. HA!
Listen you imbecile, I'm reasoning with you. That incorporates the use of words and intellect. Now it's evident that mindless blabbering and whining your good at, Reasoning and intellect is definitely not your forte. Misery Called Life
If your not capable of constructive argument, do refrain from commenting!
Oh wait that was a cheap low blow!
First you crib about others making useless insulting arguments, but you seem no different. Hypocrite! Misery Called Life I think before passing judgement people need to understand the socio-political demographics of society in the Middle East and UAE in particular. At times no matter how liberal everything may seem, we need to abide by the laws of the land. UAE is a relatively nascent society. Give it time and it will evolve. People will eventually realize it's faster to build buildings than for social-political demographics to evolve. As expats it's in our best interests that we understand that. Bushra thought's are those of reason and logic. A sign of changing times. Personally I feel that children and marriage need not be cohesive. A women can only give birth until a certain age. There are biological limitations. Marriage can always come later! zonker Bushra, I understand what you are saying; of course it is the law of the land, and must be followed, but it can be followed in a way as to uphold human dignity. Imagine the child born to the woman, what kind of a future does it have in an islamic country? Moreover, these things are happening with increasing regularity in muslim societies.. bushra21
:) zonker Well, its my bedtime here in Vancouver, so I must bid you good night! And of course you are right there Bushra, only I was a little perturbed at the behavior of the police, but I hasten to add I have seen a lot worse than this.... Metaphor79
Alright this is getting very interesting. So tell me dude, how was it like for your in school, were you bullied, molested, even raped? I'm serious here, you're gonna be a part of my thesis. bushra21
Ok sorry to intervene but those things are not a joke, even though you say you are being serious you use it in a condescending tone and it is extremely disrespectful not only to those who have gone through that but to the people who know individuals that experienced this as well.
If you have a problem with him I suggest you both act like adults and take this off the public forums.
It's extremely disgusting when I see individuals who are capable of expressing themselves in better ways choose to stoop so low... :x
Cut it out!
If you have no further remarks on the discussion pertaining to the OP then stop commenting here. Metaphor79
@Bushra- That wasn't a joke. I'm really serious. I'm trying to figure out why he behaves in that way. Pretending to be mature and sophisticated but once provoked, his real personality surfaces. He's really a part of my thesis now. Misery Called Life
So, the incoherence on your part continues. And to assume such crimes exist in society would lead me to two assumptions, 1) you have as much imagination as a hollywood movie, gossip magazine, 2) you may have come from such a tormented society. Considering your disoriented frame of mind, it would come as no surprise.
Thesis and you? what a waste of time and money. I'm sure you've probably just hijacked the word thesis and dumped in your sentances.
BTW Which university in UAE offers Phds?
So do you pick all your case studies over a couple of lines on an internet forum? Liar!
Sorry to dissapoint you, but it's your personality that's surfacing. Sly and Condascending and Oh so fake!
On the other hand I'm an open book! Metaphor79
Dude, I'm damn serious, your behavior is very interesting. You know what, your username caught my attention in the first place. You can email me, I promise you complete privacy. I don’t wanna even know who you are, just let me find out how you ended up like this. bushra21
STOP IT! ENOUGH! IF YOU CANNOT HAVE A CIVILIZED DEBATE WITH HIM PERTAINING TO THE OP THEN DON'T POST. YOUR COMMENTS WERE EXTREMELY DISTASTEFUL AND UNCALLED FOR.
IF YOU WANT TO GET TO KNOW HIM THEN DO IT VIA PM'ING AND NOT ON THE PUBLIC FORUM, STOP HIJACKING THREADS, AND STOP USING FALSE ARGUMENTS TO SUPPORT YOUR TACTLESS POST.
If you were truly conducting a thesis on this subject you wouldn't have approached him in the manner you did! Do not insult my intelligence by offering some rebuttal and just cut it out! Misery Called Life
:lol: :lol: Whadya think Bushra was born yesterday? Case study comprising few lines of an internet forum. HA! Which world do you think we live in? And who on earth would buy such a haphazard case study?
Seriously do you even know the meaning of the word thesis? Metaphor79 @Misery Called Life- Can I send you a very short questionnaire? Again I promise you complete privacy. PROMISE! Misery Called Life
Oh it's my username that got to you eh? :lol:
Well it's tailor made to incite a reaction from shallow people like you. :lol:
Oh plz send in your questionnaire. This should be fun. Answered offcourse, it's a two way street.
So which university and for what is your case study?
I'll be waiting for your questionnaire! Red Chief I think there is some job for Sage now. It's a pity because the post has attracted big audience. Metaphor79
I apprecaite your comments. It started in a different way. bushra21
Hopefully he can just delete the posts in question rather than moving it :x Metaphor79
Thank you :) . I'll PM you that Speedhump It's a shame that the OP's point has been buried under this mess of acrimony! :D UaeKid, you should read again and note that it was not even close to being a UAE bashing post, it puts the actions of the hospital in a good humanitarian light (and they do have to operate within the laws of the country), but does question the statements of the police. The OP highlighted the fact the the police said the woman should have been turned away from the hospital without care. If the quote is true, this demand surely was contrary to the most basic of human rights and no hospital should comply. Forget the law for just a second. Whatever crime someone has committed (and having a child outside wedlock IS a crime in the UAE, whatever one's views on it) isn't that person entitled to receive basic life saving care? As a forward looking nation I can't believe that the rulers of the UAE would stand behind this statement of the police? Even murderers/drunk drivers are admitted to hospital for care, aren't they? bushra21
True, and as far as I'm aware the law doesn't state that the women be turned away but they have an obligation to report them to the police. Misery Called Life
I think OP stands for Other Post as opposed to Other Person.
And I do believe there's a misconception here. I think the women and her child are in a supervised health care facility. It's more like a house arrest. I guess she'll stay put till her trial is complete....
Can anyone confirm? Red Chief
There is slightly different information in the article though.
On the other hand UAEkid describes Central Sharjah Jail like a "sanatirium for mother and child". I'm in doubt. I don't know what kind of care she should wait for in this difficalt situation but who cares? redtilldead
Actually OP means Original Post :) Speedhump Yes, original poster :) If they are in some kind of detention shelter as MCL says then it's more humane. Still under arrest obviously. Maybe she could have gone there and had her baby safely if there are faciltiies. Maybe that's what the police were actually saying. Nothing is clear. I still think it would be incredibly harsh of the police to say she should have been refused any care at all for childbirth. I find it hard it believe that was how it really was, the police here are honestly not made of stone! Leda So many meaningless words, so many bubbles... So many foreheads broken when trying to crash the wall... So many last words... So many "boxed" existences... And somewhere there is a woman - lonely, scared, in pain, separated from her beloved child... And she knows she hasn't seen the worst yet. bushra21
Ok Ms Over-dramatic, have you even bothered to read anything from this thread? The woman isn't separated from her child and as far as you saying 'she hasn't seen the worst yet', unless you can predict the future with 100% certainty (which I am positive you cannot) your statements are useless and have no grounds... Metaphor79
Poetic and touching. Leda- the Sharia law states that the mother is not to be punished in any way until the baby is waned. She shouldn't even be jailed. Leda I didn't really expect it to make your boxed minds work. I just hoped you were smart enough not to respond this one and remain seemingly understanding and... hmm... humane... Still it's nice to learn there is not only my lovely boyfriend who sits here and waits for me to come back from work. Cheers teens! P.s.: even had a thought that my stomack cramps made me too harsh in judgement this morning. changed my mind))) bushra21
As of yet I fail to see how any of my statements could be misconstrued as inhumane or harsh. It seems that you are the one who is having difficulty wrapping your head around what I said.
I don't often say this, but here's the thing - if you don't like the laws of this country, or the people for that matter, go ahead and leave. Trust me, you won't be missed and can be easily replaced regardless of what position you hold and however 'special' you think you may be.
I'm done responding to you, regardless of what you may post. I've said my piece and argued my side to the best of my ability while at the same time not allowing myself to be affected by your continued insults. However, I can see that you are the type of person who unless agreed with completely is unable to hold a civilized conversation and resorts to name calling and categorizing people as narrow minded.
Cheers, and good luck with your 'cramps'... Speedhump
Two very silly posts from you here! :shock:
I suggest that pre-menstrual forum posting is to be avoided unless it's to dicuss the weather. :D Speedhump
A Saudi judge has ordered a woman should be jailed for a year and receive 100 lashes after she was gang-raped, it was claimed last night.
The 23-year-old woman, who became pregnant after her ordeal, was reportedly assaulted after accepting a lift from a man.
He took her to a house to the east of the city of Jeddah where she was attacked by him and four of his friends throughout the night.
She later discovered she was pregnant and made a desperate attempt to get an abortion at the King Fahd Hospital for Armed Forces.
According to the Saudi Gazette, she eventually 'confessed' to having 'forced intercourse' with her attackers and was brought before a judge at the District Court in Jeddah.
He ruled she had committed adultery - despite not even being married - and handed down a year's prison sentence, which she will serve in a prison just outside the city.
She is still pregnant and will be flogged once she has had the child. bushra21
I remember reading about that and feeling utterly disgusted afterwards. For someone who should be upholding the laws of the country - which are supposed to be Islamic laws has shown complete disregard for what they are supposed to be. Islamically, there is no punishment against a woman who is raped and especially not if she becomes pregnant but the rapist himself is to be punished.
If it is confirmed that a man engaged in sexual intercourse with a woman by threatening to kill her or by using some kind of drug or anesthetic, then his crime will be more serious than that of consentual sex.
The punishment thereto is death by execution. He will not be entitled to any pardon or reprieve whatsoever, regardless of whether he was single or married.
The one who forces sex upon someone else under threat of death is an evil and vile member of the society and should be purged. He is involved in an act of open violence and transgression against others and the spread of mischief throughout the land. His is the fate of bandits and highway robbers:
Allah says: “The punishment of those who wage war against Allah and His Messenger, and strive with might and main for mischief through the land is: execution or crucifixion or the cutting off of hands and feet from opposite sides or exile from the land: that is their disgrace in this world and a heavy punishment is theirs in the Hereafter.” [Sűrah al-Mâ’idah: 33]
A woman will not be punished if there is any reason to believe that she was forced into the act. The least evidence in this regard will be sufficient to save the woman from punishment. Our Prophet (peace be upon him) said: “Allah has pardoned my people for the acts they do by mistake, due to forgetfulness, and what they are coerced into doing” [Related by Ibn Mâjah and authenticated by al-Nawawî, Ibn Hajr, and al-Albânî].
Also, it was related by Ibn Abî Shaybah through Târiq b. Shahâb that a woman accused of adultery was taken to Caliph `Umar. The woman pleaded that she was asleep and woke up to find the man over her. `Umar released the woman. [The narration was approved by al-Albâni]. Ibn Qudâmah stated in his book al-Mughnî: “There is no punishment on the woman who was coerced into adultery.”
If a woman confesses that her baby was born from an illegal relationship or in case four witnesses of impeccable character testify that she had committed adultery – meaning that they were eye-witnesses to the sexual penetration – then she will be subject to conviction in the Islamic courts. Likewise, if a man confesses to adultery or four witnesses of impeccable character testify that he had committed adultery then he will be subject to the legal punishment. She is no different than a man in this regard.
In case there are no witnesses and no confession then the woman will not receive punishment just because of pregnancy. Women can fall pregnant without committing illegal sexual intercourse. A woman could be raped or coerced. In this case, she is a victim and not the perpetrator of a crime.
Therefore, she cannot be punished or even accused of misconduct merely on the strength of her falling pregnant. This opinion is held by many people of knowledge. Ibn Qudâmah said in his book al-Mughnî:
If a woman becomes pregnant without having a husband or a master, she may not be punished and, in stead, she should be asked about it, if she claimed that she was coerced into it or that she committed adultery under dubious circumstances, or if she simply does not confess adultery then she will not be punished. This is the saying of Abu Hanîfah and al-Shâfi`î ,because she may be pregnant as a result of a forceful intercourse or dubious circumstances. Punishment will be abandoned in case suspicion exists. It is well known that a woman could become pregnant without engaging in true intercourse. The woman may become pregnant if sperm is manually inserted into her vagina. This would explain how a virgin becomes pregnant.
This is clearly the correct and most just ruling on the matter. Red Chief
Why don't you keep on topic instead of making it personal and dirty, leutenant?
I don't see any stupidity in that simpathy to the mother with baby in jail (not resort). Metaphor79 @Speedhump- I clearly said Sharia Law as stated in Quran and Sunna.
What happens in KSA is a very weird interpretation of Sharia law. I'm Muslim and I can say KSA gives Islam a bad name.
Go back in history and you'll find the story of a unmarried pregnant woman who came to prophet Mohammad. She confessed and wanted to clear her sin. He asked her to come back once she's delivered the baby. She came back with her illegitimate child. Again he asked her to come back once the baby is weaned. Now this is Sharia law. Speedhump
She mentioned her stomach cramps, did you miss the reference...you did didn't you.........also there's nothing dirty about menstruation commissar, you are showing your repugnance of women and their 'stuff' again I think! :P
She was saying that all posters here 'don't understand' and criticising them, whereas all that was being discussed was the legal issues. She had no need to make such remarks. I hope you follow.
Interesting that you attacked me and not bushra who was quite forthright in her condemnation of the posts. I on the other hand make a joke of it. Hmmm...... :roll: Speedhump
Hi.
My quote said 'She is still pregnant and will be flogged once she has had the child.' So it upholds what you mentioned, although the case itself is quite horrific. Sharia law is mangled in this way in many countries, not just KSA. Nigeria, Pakistan, Afghanistan (previously), etc., have many cases of women being 'legally' stoned to death for adultery or 'honour' killed which has been pardoned by courts (even if the women have only having been subected to rape). These death sentences are, as you say, postponed until after any baby is weaned in the cases I have read online.
A religion that is abused so widely can't be held up as a world model.
I don't want to attack your beliefs, please don't take it personally. Many millions practice Islam peacefully and I'm sure it gves them comfort in a crazy world.
It's strange that KSA, the 'home' of the religion is so wayward in it's practises? BlackburnRovers
Thats because of cultural reasons. And also, KSA is home to the 2 holy cities, but thats about it. You are more likely to witness proper Islamic behavior from an American Muslim than from a Saudi. Religion has little to do with location, its about the individual. zonker I see that the controversy rages on...however, whose interpretation of islam is the correct one? The Saudis, the UAE, or Pakistani? or the dozen or so other countries that call themselves islamic around planet earth... bushra21
The mistakes of 'Muslim' people shouldn't be attributed to Islam.
I completely disagree with most of what is going in the name of Islam in KSA as well as any other countries or groups that take the religion to extremes. In my eyes, they are nothing more than a sad excuse for a human and will be punished for their egregious sins not only in this life time but also in the hereafter. bushra21
Good point zonker, but I think you'd be really hard pressed to find any country that truly practices the way the religion is intended to be done. Unfortuanetly, it's human nature to be motivated, consumed, and/or fall victim to pride and greed. Those in power and in positions of justice in the so-called Islamic states are no exception, sure there are a few who go against that, but as with most things the majority wins :roll: zonker Bushra, my point was also to find out: who decides how religion is intended to be practised? bushra21
I noticed that but didn't know what to say without shooting myself in the foot, so I chose not to say anything hoping you wouldn't notice :oops:
I'm tempted to say that it is how you as the believer would comprehend it, but a counter argument to that could be the actions of the taliban, osama, rulings in countries such as ksa, pakistan, iran and so on.
I guess, since there are so many interpretations of how religion is to be practiced, the best solution would be to follow the one whose methods and understanding of the religion most closely the general code of morals/ethics that is expected of everyone and that in the same time you feel most comfortable with. Then what would come into play is the individual whose interpretations you are accepting and his level knowledge and education on the religion, his background and what not.
Does that make sense? Metaphor79
I didn't criticize Islam, I'm just not happy with the way it's interpreted.
And yes, Islam does give peace to millions, so do other religions.
Faith and believes are all in the heart. Red Chief
Hm... Speedhump M.D. Can you define pregnancy distantly as well? If it's true I'm not surprized that you roll in money. :P
I don't envy, but respect your showy talents. :wink: bushra21
:?
ok...
I don't think anyone has the right to force their own beliefs unto others, and at the same time people should not be so quick to accept the sayings of others especially when it comes to religion without a clear understanding of what is being said and for what reason. So yeah, religion should be a personal thing but at the same time there should be individuals who are practiced and educated in the religion that are available to others who seek guidance and explanations. The presence of those individuals though shouldn't mean an obligatory acceptance and following of their beliefs. Speedhump
Good point, except that when a religion is also used as a legal code it's about more than the individual. zonker okay..I got that bushra....good answer. Now I can sleep well, since its my bedtime here....i have to hit the sack Speedhump
:D
Chief, I have magic hands, women comment on it, afterwards.... :P
When she mentioned stomach cramps I believe she meant that the dreaded time of the month is here. Many many women can be very irrational/emotional at that time (it's pure human chemistry, you know it too :)).....I was trying to make it into a small joke so she didn't try to hunt me down with a breadknife during this week.... Red Chief
I know that it's only their chemistry but anyway recently prefer to pack my food only into jutesacks than in plastic ones because I am afraid of your irrational behaviour, old thug. :P

Damn, they are rather tight as well. :evil: bushra21
The Islamic faith is understood by its followers as a guide to life rather than simply a means to worship. Just as most other things, it is dependent on the individual but also affects others around him. In general, there are few things that I personally disagree with concerning Shariaa Law, but I find that there are many things that are done in its name by people who supposedly uphold this law that is completely against it. So it's not really a good representation of the religion or the Shariaa law that is derived from it. Speedhump
Here I am...creeping up behind you.....and.....over the head!!!
But I'm sure you'd rather use those jute bags as underwear, cut the corners off for legholes. :idea:
I have no doubt you'd get a huge buzz walking around in those painful, scratchy things under your trousers....old pervert :D :D 8) :lol: Red Chief :roll: You assume too much in your rage. It means that your days are comming. That's why I am worry about a few hundred visitors of supermarkets across the UAE who happened to have red noses. They will be innocent victims of your irrational behaviour. Frankly speeking I've never read about such cases in Gulf News but it's not the end of the month. :lol: Speedhump Guv'nor the only person I ever dream about 'going postal' on here is you. Of course you should be honoured. ;) Red noses...I guess you are not the only heavy drinker in Dubai. Yes you have that right I suppose. :occasion5: :glasses2: Red Chief
Speedy, you too? :)
Welcome to the club! Speedhump Chief you really should disable your webcam.....you wil scare small children. :D :P

:rr: Bora Bora ^^^LOL^^^ Red Chief Speedy, I have just seen a shot from your web-camera. It's heart of darkness. Speedhump
Just a black hole..... Chocoholic Nice to see the douche bags of the forum trash another serious and interesting thread. Speedhump oooh sounds like someone else has a hormonal imbalance this week. sorry but when someone makes personal references I don't stay silent. and when did you ever either, windbag.... Chocoholic Do one! Speedhump Full of charm! rudeboy
brovers. sharjah follows shariah law. and shariah law forbids xxx before marriage. and if caught the person gets punished. yes in europe and other non-islamic countries it is allowed and you will find single women who are raising their kids. but ask 2 parents how hard it is to raise a kid. and since it is hard for 2 parents, imagine how hard it will be for single parents? yes kanelli will say she knows a single mum who is doing well on her own but is she really?
2ndly when kids are growing up they are always under peer pressure. a kid who doesnt know who his dad is, one day watches all his friends being picked up by their dads. dont u think he will one day ask his mum where is his dad? this does have a HUGE effect on kids.
its all about role models and kids look up to their mum and dad as their role models. if there aint no dad then who is the man in the house :D.
sorry i had to say that :P but honestly speaking islam forbids xxx before marriage because it knows the cosequences of single parents raising their kids. Why do you think across Europe, women just dump their kids at the hospital and run off?
it is a crime and because it is a crime hospitals wont allow them in. maybe they will get fined?
so you are hospital owner, you provide jobs for many ppl in your hospital. one day this irani woman comes to your hospital. you allow her in. next day the authorities are asking u to close your hospital down and you ask 100 ppl working in your hospital to go back to their homes and look else where. so basically you are paying for that womans crime. is that fair?
I agree with this law and its the law of the state. if ppl believe their cant agree to it, they will get punished. I agree with you that hospitals not allowing them entry is a bit extreme. but would she be in this position if she was using her body as a object to be used and abused??
is a female body only for popping babies? kanelli There will always be s.e.x out of wedlock and unplanned pregnancies. Here are some options for a woman in the UAE who illegally falls pregnant: 1) Get married as soon as possible 2) Go abroad to have the baby 3) Go abroad to have a proper medical abortion 4) Get an illegal abortion in the UAE, possibly done by someone unskilled 5) Conceal the pregnancy and give birth and dispose of the baby 6) Confess and give birth and stay in prison with the baby I personally don't like any law that would contribute to women feeling like they have to kill an unborn child, or put themselves (or the baby) at health risks from concealing the pregnancy or terminating the pregnancy in an unsafe way. What would God think is more important - the lives of the mother and child, or the mother's "moral" reputation? Misery Called Life
Well RB we are united in ur concern for child welfare. But is spending time in a (assumption) prison conducive to the child's well-being?
Single Parenting? I don't think the crux of the problem lies in single parenting. I opine that society needs to be more rigorous in creating terms for single parenting. Make it mandatory for single parents to undergo councelling, clear an examination etc in order to acertain that ther'ye capable of the task. It's way too easy to become a parent these days single or couple. And a lack of awareness on the issue of raising kids, the laxity of it all is the crux of the problem.
Times have changed, and there are very many institutions capable of child welfare right frm the toddler stage. Not that it's a substitute for parenting, but there is a science to in which can be immensly beneficial to a child's upbringing.
As far as couples raising kids goes, there is no certainty that they are up to the job. Explain then how can an airhstess be a good mother? How can a investment professional or a lawyer who puts in 100 hour weeks find time for their kids? Are parents today only a source of financing or are they more than that?
And to sign off:- is the female body only for popping babies? I'd like to hear your take on it!
( Not a bad reply from someone who might be rather tipsyyyyyy :lol: ) Red Chief
It's better for you to stop giving some advice how people should bring their children up. Why don't you mind about own business, bloody hypocrate.
I doubt that in jail kid will have better upbringing regardless of it has one or two parents. kanelli So rudeboy, the law is about stopping single parent families? What about couples who are married, have children, then divorce? Should the parent who is guardian over the children go to jail with the children because he/she isn't deemed capable of raising children out of wedlock and it is bad for society? You ask the question - "Is the female body only for popping babies?" Well, is the male body only for impregnating female bodies? I'm not sure what point you were trying to make. zonker If you break it down to the bare essentials, then...yes, the female body is for popping babies, and the males are for impregnation...thats how the species is supposed to survive. Evolution at work. Speedhump
You mean if she was not using, yes?
This is unfair and you're jumping to a conclusion t suit your own views, not untypically (just as you suggested that Kanelli knows nothing about her one parent friend, just to support your own argument with a 'straw man').
Do you KNOW that the woman was not in love with the man that impregnated her? People give in to their feelings or even to the pressure of a partner to have s*x.
Where is the 'abuse' in this please? It's the assumption in Islam that women's bodies are the cause of sinful actions in men that I find so pathetic. Not the uncontrolled actions of men often behaving like dogs. The thought that women are always to blame, cover them up! zonker SH...you are absolutely right there...in muslim societies, its the men that lay down the rules...for men AND women! Women are not supposed to have any say in it. uaekid
fu** this guys, I mean comm'aan , can you be fare for ones about the this country for god sack.
the woman broke the law period, no excuse and don’t turn it into one of you raciest discussion bringing Islam and accusing it for every thing.
what she did is wrong to our laws and understandings, if she or you in this matter want to bit** around or have basters as you call them then take a couple of months off and do it in your own society.
why are excusing those who live in chaos. if ppl can't get their lives straight why should UAE care for them and fix their dam problems, I'm sorry but look how your societies turned into bcz of this attitude.
and I'm really glade these things keep happing around here and being in the news so it would be a lesion to all of you that this country wont turn into what you want. but I guess you can't get a hint.
speedhumps.. too much of this forum missed your brain up. Speedhump I know the law here and that was not what I objected to, you have missed the point entirely. I objected to the poster saying the woman was abusing her body, and also that he would not believe that a single parent family can do well despite being told of an example personally known to kanelli. It's his bigotry I object to, not the law. The law is the law, live with it or leave, and you should know bloody well by now that's how I feel; if you don't then you obviously don't read my posts at all. I'm not in favour of one parent families by the way, I think they can lead to psychological harm and financial problems far too often, but not always. Two parents are generally needed to give the proper balance of love and financial support, also mental gender images for children. A portion of black society in the USA seem to have grown a culture of men wandering round impregnating women and moving on, it almost seems a status symbol. Sickening. kanelli The funny thing is, I never posted anything about any single mother I know. :lol: RobbyG
:D We support you girl, don't worry :D RobbyG
Ahhh, finally some wise men talk again.
I see I don't have to say much today. Speedhump already did that part for me, eloquently.
Back to the fun part ;) Speedhump Yeah, I have my lucid moments :shock: Now, back to trashing !! :D :D Red Chief
:shock:
Who will support you, beggar? The retirement pension of your mother is enough to feed only you with bread water and internet. :wink: Misery Called Life
Hey Commissar, you're a fitsy one eh? :lol: rudeboy everyone is entitled to think whatever they want. would luv to argue but seriously got a life to get on with :D oh by the way in my opinion a womans body is not for POPPING babies. if the guy luved the woman, he would have been there for his child and certainly would have been their for his LUV. so much for TRUE luv then ey ;) it is the rule of the state. adultery or sex outside wedlock is punishable by death. the woman knew this and she got herself into this mess. yes I agree with you that keeping a new born baby in prison is a inhumane thing but I guess the authority can hand over the baby to the womans relatives but thats only if she tells them who they are. silly cow. sorry cheif if you got pissed off with my comments. it wasnt directed to anyone personally, I was just comparing the western way of things with UAE and trying to explain why Islam has this rule in place. yes it is wrong for me to jump to conclusions but honestly speaking I dont understand why the woman doesnt tell the authority who the dad is. maybe she is afraid that he will get caught and get punished, which is understandable. or maybe she is ashamed of what they have done. maybe she is afraid of showing everyone how good & pure their "luv" is. I guess they arent your "modern" romeo & Juliet then ;). cos only juliey is taking the bullet here not romeo :D I just dont understand some of the expatriates living here. you are in a foreign country. there are laws here just like in UK & USA. Laws arent meant to be BROKEN. why cant some of the expatriates understand that??? get on with it ppl rather then making a huge fuss about it. RobbyG
:D I see the 'clown with vodka heart' did strike your ego firmly
God, I'm good ;) :lol: uaekid
hey robbyg, since you are unemployed and instead of being useless to the world ,why don't you get down here to Dubai to get a job, the pizza won't deliver it self LOL Speedhump Kid I'm still waiting for my Burger King, it's almost 4 a.m. get on that damn bike will ya? :P Robby isn't useless he's our prize clown. :D Entertaining the troops is a valid job, never forget that :roll: RobbyG I thought investing in stocks is like contributing to the liquidity process? ;) As a matter of fact, I make money from it and I have a job interview next week. Patience kid, patience. Its crisis everywhere. I'm glad I'm still smiling when everyone around me is going cranky without a job :D ;) kanelli rudeboy, I can't believe you called that woman a "silly cow". If you are okay with that kind of language, then don't mind me when I call you a male chauvinist pig. :evil:



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