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Are the Gulf people imitating the stance of their leaders?


Humbleman Can someone help me to understand that, how come people in the Gulf countries haven’t been protesting in solidarity with what has been happening to the Palestinian people, when thousands of people worldwide are protesting. I know there had been demonstration of only less than 500 people that took place in the UAE, which is pitiful when some of the demonstrations in non-Gulf countries were triple that number. Ukraine and some European countries have been lately playing game with Russian to the point where Russia got angry, and said enough is enough. Now Russian has reduced the Gas supply to Ukraine, the result, Ukraine is now up and down for Russian’s forgiveness and begging European countries to mediate. Why can’t these useless Arab leaders be as assertive as Russia, and try use the oil as leverage to make the world take a very serious notice of the Palestinians plight
muyesser it's been already mentioned on the other tread that started by yourself.. arabs having high ego related issues that prevent them from united action/movement.. Humbleman Thanks muyesser. I guess you are not far from the mark. To be honest am very embarrassed to be from an Arab descent. mesheditor what is the use of demonstrations? I personally don't want to walk around shouting and screaming for no tangible results. Humbleman
My friend
You see, that’s precisely why the Middle East cannot change the status quo, if the people in the Middle East think similar to the way you do.
The problem in the Middle East has been that, people are submissive and servant to their leaders, whatever their leaders say, people follow regardless – especially in the Gulf.
Let me give you quick examples just to remind you of the power of peaceful demonstration. How Gandhi did force the British to get out of his country? He did it by inspiring millions of people to demonstrate and say no to the British occupation. He and his followers kept demonstrating until they gave no choice to the British but to get out of India.
Latest successful demonstration was when the Ukraine people refused to accept a sham election, the result they turned the table around and toppled the government which they considered to be illegitimate.
These are just two examples out of thousands. uaekid we are useless man I'll give you that. but protesting won't change a thing since the powerful countries are behind Israel. they want this to happen and support it. but again yes we are useless.. gafoorgk
why do u agree failure so quickly?! u didn't even give a try. i can't think of any real attempt even in the past.
what makes you think that countries behind israel are powerful? instead why don't you think YOU are weak ?! so-called powerful countries by you are neither powerful nor weak. you have the same resources to grow up just the way they do. only difference is they use it, but you don't.
history says weaks are always exploited by powerfuls. oh! btw, by being powerful, i didn't mean inventing/stocking advanced weapons, fighter jets, etc.... uaekid
this is what counts now a days, lets be realistic here. and this is what they use to enforce the democracy. Haven't you notes?
yes we will have the power if UNITED but each has his own interest with those countries, so it's not about being weak but it's more of exchanged interest. For example, Iraqi gov will not do it cuz they have been positioned by the US gov and so on.
However when or if they will get together they will be the most powerful region bcz the unity they ll create will have the most advantage weapon (oil) compared to others united regions, but again that’s if. . gafoorgk
i can't agree on certain things you said.
continuous failure to start something doesn't mean that that "thing" is impossible. voice of one and one million does make difference. put aside religion, put aside internal differences, bring together people, stay united, voice together. one can fail, two can fail...... but millions cannot fail. you don't need people who take gun and go for war, you need people who are ready to stand together. all should start from people like you.
it's really sad to see children dying out there. Humbleman Gafoorgk, you are absolutely correct. Well said Uaekid, my friend, you are not useless nor the millions of people throughout the Middle East who are desperate for real change. I’ll tell why. For a start, you are not accepting the status quo – this itself is a sign of courage and determination, and that’s a symbol of hope. You see, we were the people who brought civilization to Al-Andalus, during the period between 711 and 1492, which then trickle to the rest of the Europe (although European won’t publicly admit it for some reason). At that time we were the nation of knowledge, literature, mathematic, science, hygiene and tolerance. However, somewhere along the way we abandoned all of those great accomplishments. We became complacent and lazy to some extent, controlled by self-served rulers and governments whom we can’t hold accountable, no matter how terrible they perform. We’ve became a nation whom transfixed on religion to the point where we neglected to build on what our ancestor had accomplished. We idly watched their accomplishments used by others to the benefit of their advancement. You see, our ancestor were very smart because even at a primitive era, they knew that, knowledge, literature, mathematic, science, hygiene and tolerance had to go hand in had with their religion. Unlike today, where our religion has becomes our central theme at the expense of knowledge, literature, mathematic, science, hygiene and tolerance. Don’t get me wrong, I am proud of being a Muslim, but our religion shouldn’t stifle what’s important to advance ourselves to better future. Unfortunately, the Middle East leaders’ point of views and decisions are influenced by other governments whom import oil from these oil producing countries, and give donation to those non-oil producing Middle East countries. These outside influences pass down to the public through the Media which are controlled by those governments. As a result, you have great divisions between the Arab and Muslim world. My point is this, if the Arab and Muslim world want to change the status quo, then the change has come from the grass root. And as uaekid kindly put it, “voice of one and one million does make difference. put aside religion, put aside internal differences, bring together people, stay united, voice together. One can fail, two can fail...... but millions cannot fail”.

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uaekid true... Chocoholic
Kid, how do you know unless you try? To say such things, is to admit defeat before you've even given anything a chance!
Ok, so protesting and the like is technically banned in many gulf countries. However, if there is such strong feeling about an issue, then I think that people have the right to express that feeling and opinion. Leaders are supposed to listen to their people. One voice alone is not enough, but hundreds, thousands, millions of voices together can do anything for a common cause.
I don't believe in defeatist attitudes. kanelli
I have exactly the same thoughts, and posted the same argument on DHH forum. Saudi could definitely be sending a strong message, but they aren't leading the way at all.
About the demonstrations in the UAE, they aren't allowed and if they do happen they are usually broken up quickly. There isn't much of a culture of protest here. In Europe, US and Canada I know there have been very large protests about what Israel is doing to Palestinians, but those gatherings are allowed there unless they turn violent. mesheditor
Brother, I am first of all following my religion by adhering to anything my governments / leaders are saying, regardless and blindly. Believe it or not, Islam says even if your leader is a corrupt, crooked, dirty, dictator or anything you shouldn’t disobey his orders.
By not having Unions, opposition parties , left wing or right wing etc you guarantee that you not gonna end up in a situation like Iraq, Afghanistan , Pakistan , iran .. man, life is chaos and absolutely out of order. So I would like not to be asked or provoked to go against the system, UAE’s system serves me and my community better than any other system. Sadly speaking, what u see in Palestine is a result of bunch of politicians running campaigns against their own elected government, if all Palestinians forget about their personal snags and issues among them and focused on empowering the current Palestinian government and they all gather under one flag so that the entire world acknowledges their existence, no power in the world would deny their independence and the rights to decide for themselves. Other little problems can be solved and negotiated among them without an outside interference at a later stage.
Good example that might enlighten many, an Iranian good friend of mine was talking about his recent visit to his country, said that the country has almost everything that existed in the world in terms of natural resources as well as human skills etc, and he added that he would wish see that UAE ruler rules iran only for 5 years, iran will be the best country in the world :)
I might go out in a demonstration if it’s a peaceful and a controlled one and under the eyes of the law enforcement , and we don’t need to set fire to a flag and start kicking the flag etc , I think many of my fellow UAE nationals would agree, it shows aggressiveness and its very inappropriate. rudeboy words have no meanings. demonstrations have no meanings either and are pointless. actions speak louder then words. 9/11 did the trick. it changed the whole world. Chocoholic
Awsome, so basically the brain, mind and free will that you have been given you ignore and act like a robot and do everything you're told to do.
If you were ordered to jump off a bridge would you do so? gafoorgk
islam DO NOT say that. islam DO say that even if your parents are going in wrong path, you have the right to advice them,..... please do not make picture of islam even worst.

here is one who is taking gun. RobbyG
Its actually not all that hard to understand basic economics of it.
If your a petro-state and your only source of significant income is petro-dollars, then you can't just close the spigot gates as this causes severe problems internally.
Think of the social budget expenditures and (foreign) investments not gaining a return on investment (ROI), followed by lack of confidence and outflow of capital from that particular country.
The economic sanctions that follow are huge and the oil price will skyrocket for sure. But that spurs the need for alternative investments and eventually within a decade (if necessary) the oil is not needed any longer.
Who benefits from that? Not the Arab nations. Maybe short term, but long term they lose.
Russia has more balls but also a diverse capacity to make such actions. But don't forget Russia has the largest mineral deposits in the world being untouched. So everybody needs russia's commodities. So that truly is a superpower in case of economics 101. Humbleman
Mesheditor, I respect your point of view. However, if Islam says “Islam says even if your leader is a corrupt, crooked, dirty, dictator or anything you shouldn’t disobey his orders.” I’ll quit being a Muslim right away, but I know for fact that Islam says the opposite.
I do hold a great respect to Sheikh Mohammed bin Rashid Al Maktoum, he seems to be progressive and intelligent leader, and he is probably the best out of the rest of the herd.
See, this is exactly my point; people in the Gulf have became addictive to the comfortable lifestyles that their leaders have been deliberately providing them with. Because after all they know that, feed them well, and they will likely to follow submissively all the way. These leaders are very smart, do you know if they would fairly share the oil revenues with their own people, every one in the Gulf would be a billionaire. This is because the Gulf countries make trillions of dollars out of the oil every single year. However these leaders know the trick of the game, don’t overfeed them and they’ll follow, otherwise they would repel against you.
The Gulf peoples’ dependant attitude on their leaders for hands out has been a major curse and hindrance to their own advancement. Not to mention, open the doors for people to become so transfix on religion rather then science and literature, this because they have nothing important that could occupy their brains.
Imagine if there are proper systems in place that oversee where and how the oil money are spent or should be spend, guarantee you that the Gulf countries would be in a better rank amongst the developed countries. You hardly would find a good program that encourage and guide the Gulf people to be a major participant in building their countries’ infrastructures. Gulf people should be taught and train to embrace all sort of works whether labour or professional.
In regard to democracy, you see, the reason that democracy are working in the West is because the idea that it’s okay to lose to someone, and one shouldn’t hates someone just because he/she won or causes one to lose, were gradually taught to one generation after another until they became acceptant of one government at time.
In the Middle East we are taught that losing to someone is like losing a personal honour. Thus, we find it hard sometime to befriend with the person who causes us to lose. That’s why democracy cannot work in the Middle East unless people taught to be acceptant of the idea of winning and losing, and it’s not okay to hate or hold personal grudges against someone just because he/she won over us.
However, this is not enough to ensure that the Middle East would embrace democracy. Let me give you this example, if you go to a village and out of the blue build a road crossing their village, how would you expect these people to react? Of course they’ll staunchly oppose it, why because they know nothing about it. But if you before building that road go to the village and try to educate and raise its peoples’ awareness about the benefits that they’ll get if they let that road to be built. Then the odds of them being in favour of the idea will be very high. This is the same thing with democracy, first you have to subtly educate people beforehand.
If the Gulf countries genuinely want to see bright generations, then they have to start now by educating their youngsters about the benefit of democracy, the benefit of science, the benefit of not relying at others do the job for them, the benefit of thinking outside the box. And more importantly, teach them that religion is one’s relationship with Allah, one doesn’t has to go to a extreme measure to proves that relationship –just be a good Muslim, who pray, live in peace with his/her surrounding, tolerate others’ religions and point of views, and so on.
But to say I’ll set back and do nothing is a sign of weakness, and weakness is what you don’t want if you really want your nation to advance to a better future.
Humbleman
Wrong, that’s not how we should do things in the 21st century.
You have to understand that, majority of people who live in the West and some other countries thinks that Muslims and Russian people are trouble makers. This unfair accusation have been fed to them by the Media - it’s racism and bias but that’s the West Media I’m afraid. So to get the truth out there, you have to find effective ways to counteract that. Humbleman
RobbyG, that’s very good point.
However, the idea that oil would be less valuable in the long term if the Gulf countries decided to take stern action is unlikely. And here is why, first of all, oil is incorporated into literally everything we use, from sprays, cosmetic products to medicine and so on. This means, oil is what makes every economy in world function.
If the West were to impose embargo on the Middle East, do you honestly think it will affect the over all spirits of the people, or the trades between the Middle East countries. The answer is no, why because Middle Eastern people are more oriented to rough existence than their Western fellows.
Russian has just reduced a small percentage of the gas supply, and the people in there are already carrying, so imagine if Russian cut off all the Gas supply what would happen to those people.
Now, which one is better, to live proud and dignify live, or to put your head down in the sand and pretend that nothing happened, so you wouldn’t lose that oil deal? Think about it.
I don’t know about you, but personally prefer the first option. gafoorgk
this is exactly why i called people in this regions "slaves of modern age in a golden cage" elsewhere in this forum. worst part is they are not ready to listen or understand this simple fact. muyesser
In regard to democracy, you see, the reason that democracy are working in the West is because the idea that it’s okay to lose to someone, and one shouldn’t hates someone just because he/she won or causes one to lose, were gradually taught to one generation after another until they became acceptant of one government at time.
Fuel protests of 2000 over the cost of petrol-diesel in the UK was so massive that the drivers stopped the deliveries when mr blair threatened them with calling the army out = democracy
Anti terrorism acts through out Europe are prevent people for certain mass demonstrations/protests = democracy
Many Europeans are still being prosecuted after taking part in anti-war demonstrations during gulf war = democracy
Guantanamo = democracy
Election scams = democracy
Human rights cases taken to EU hr court are being held only because they were found too political = democracy gafoorgk for fuel protests, it was right decision to threaten with calling army. interest of few cannot be let disturb smooth flow of national economy or million others. for all others, i'm with your sarcastic post. :) guantanamo is the most apparent and worst human rights violation case. mesheditor Muyesser , exactly bro .. thanks for making it short .. this is what humble man should understand, democracy is a term that I am not able to understand yet, looked everywhere for its meaning but couldnt really understand it. given examples of Europs democracy is an absolute fantasy and irrational. lets stick to reality, Islam says " follow your leaders " and has a wisdom behind it. I am not smarter than God to figure out whys that. Yeah Oil revenue goes about to everyone including you expats but in an indirect manner. I only compare my way of living to differant parts of the world and thank God for whatever I make at the end of the day. being from the old generations gave me the opportunity to understand the meaning of hunger , not a lot know it though ..many thanks to UAE government, Many thanks to the oil, Many thanks to the store keeper who brings me a vitamin C and a pack of cigirates right to my car. muyesser democracies throught out world are no more than self-interest on the part of governments that are expected to serve the monopolists only; russia might be a good example to that. xl Humbleman Democracy is where people have a say in how their governments operate and perform. Democracy is when all the people of a country can vote to elect a government whom they would do a better job working for them. Democracy is when your son/daughter or relative can have the right to dream to be a Prime Minister or President of his/her country. Now, why do we have to have the same democracy that those European countries have. Why can’t we have a democracy that would incorporate our culture, heritage and all the things that make who we are. As I said earlier, we cannot go now and expect people to embrace democracy, mainly because we might find it hard to change our mind set. However we have to start teaching our youngsters on how to embrace a form of democracy that carries our flavour. I agree with you, the West have been preaching about democracy and human right to the rest of the world, but when they felt insecure they enact laws that fully contract with the meaning of democracy and human right. I guess they showed their true colour of democracy. Just look at the total disregard of human right by Israel, but yet those countries who claim they value human right have been watching silently for many years. Chocoholic However, Human Rights laws can o be a pain in the backside and counter productive! Like criminals complaining about their prison conditions saying it's a breach of their human rights, not being able to deport people, because of their human rights and so on and so forth. As far as I am concerned, if you have committed a crime against another human being, then you have forfeighted your human rights. There should be levels and each act or contesting should be judged accordingly. kanelli I'm sorry, but no system is 100% perfect. There are elements of communism that are great, and elements of democracy that are great, and elements of benevolent dictatorship that are great. The fact that some of you think that democracy is supposed to be a perfect form of leadership makes me laugh. Of course there is always room for corruption. Human nature makes every system flawed, because humans are flawed! The best we can do is choose a form of leadership that works best for our society on the whole. Sorry to say, but early civilizations started with dictatorships, then moved on and on to finally reach democracy. It is only natural for people to want to control their own destiny. I'd much rather live in a non-so-perfect democracy where at least I had a hope of getting a crook out of power, than a dictatorship where the people are crushed for opposing and stupid and unfair decisions are being made that harm the people. In the UAE, the leader is a good one, so people can live well. Others countries are not so fortunate... this is why I still believe that democracy is the best. muyesser
As far as I am concerned, if you have committed a crime against another human being, then you have forfeighted your human rights.
agree; therefore, last time an english judge ruled that A.Pinochet -who killed hundreds in chile, 70's- was immune from prosecution and would not be extridited to spain..
xl muslimbangladeshi I don't see what protests can achieve in this case. It has achieved nothing now, nor during illegal Western and Anglo American invasion of Iraq. I am still perplexed by the lack of hatred and anger directed towards USA/UK for their actions in Iraq, Afghanistan and elsewhere. Why is the hatred directed towards a tinpot militia of refugees from Europe who dream of "Greater Israel" from Nile to Euphrates. This refugee bunch would not even exist if USA and West stopped supporting them blindly. In this case, protest have not achieved anything nor will it achieve anything. The only protest that may work is Egyptians taking to the streets and kicking out a secular useless dictator called Mubarak. So that they can help their brothers in Gaza and not cage them inside this tiny virtual prison to be killed by Zionist militia.



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