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Afghani converts to Christianity - facing death penalty


Chocoholic What do you guys think of this? I think it's terrible! Do you see any other religions prosecuting people and threatening their lives for converting to something else. It's this kind of strangle hold over a persons life that really annoys me. If he had been anywhere else in the world, no-one would have cared. Khaleej Times: KABUL - An Afghan man is being prosecuted in a Kabul court and could be sentenced to death after being charged with converting from Islam to Christianity, a crime under this country’s Islamic Shariah laws, a judge said. The trial is believed to be the first of its kind in Afghanistan and highlights a struggle between religious conservatives and reformists over what shape Islam will take here four years after the ouster of the Islamic fundamentalist Taleban regime. The defendant, Abdul Rahman, 41, was arrested last month after his family accused him of becoming a Christian, Judge Ansarullah Mawlavezada told The Associated Press in an interview. Rahman was charged with rejecting Islam and his trial started last Thursday. During the one-day hearing, the defendant allegedly confessed that he converted from Islam to Christianity 16 years ago while working as a medical aid worker for an international Christian group helping Afghan refugees in the Pakistani city of Peshawar, Mawlavezada said. “We are not against any particular religion in the world. But in Afghanistan, this sort of thing is against the law,” the judge said. “It is an attack on Islam.” Mawlavezada said he would rule on the case within two months. Afghanistan’s constitution is based on Shariah law, which states that any Muslim who rejects Islam should be sentenced to death, according to Ahmad Fahim Hakim, deputy chairman of the state-sponsored Afghanistan Independent Human Rights Commission. Repeated attempts to see Rahman in detention were barred. The prosecutor, Abdul Wasi, said he had offered to drop the charges if Rahman converted back to Islam, but he refused. “He would have been forgiven if he changed back. But he said he was a Christian and would always remain one,” Wasi told the AP. “We are Muslims and becoming a Christian is against our laws. He must get the death penalty.” After being an aid worker for four years in Pakistan, Rahman moved to Germany for nine years, said Rahman’s father, Abdul Manan, outside his home in Kabul. He returned to Afghanistan in 2002 and tried to gain custody of his two daughters, now aged 13 and 14, who had been living with their grandparents their whole lives, he said. A custody battle ensued and the matter was taken to the police. During questioning, it emerged that Rahman was a Christian and was carrying a Bible. He was immediately arrested and charged, the father said. Afghanistan is a conservative Islamic country. Some 99 percent of its 28 million people are Muslim, the remainder mainly Hindu. A Christian aid worker in Kabul, who spoke on condition of anonymity because of the sensitivity of the matter, said there was no reliable figure for the number of Christians, though it was believed to be in the low hundreds. He said few admit their faith because of fear of retribution and there are no known Afghan churches. An old house in a war-wrecked suburb of Kabul serves as a Christian place of worship for expatriates. From the muddy street, the building looks like any other. Its guard, Abdul Wahid, said no Afghans go there. The only other churches are believed to be inside foreign embassies or on bases belonging to the US-led coalition or a NATO peacekeeping force. Hakim, the human rights advocate, said the case would attract widespread attention in Afghanistan and could be exploited by Muslim conservatives to rally opposition to reformists who are trying to moderate ways the religion is practiced here. Muslim clerics still hold considerable power in Afghanistan, especially in rural areas where most women wear all-encompassing burqas and are dominated by men. Hakim said that if Rahman is acquitted, it would be a propaganda win for the Taleban rebels, who have stepped up their insurgency in the past year. In the months before US-led troops ousted the extremists in 2001, they claimed that Western aid groups were trying to convert Afghan Muslims. They arrested eight foreign aid workers for allegedly preaching Christianity, but later released them unharmed.
arniegang very sad fayz Very sad indeed, nobody should be forced into religion, religion comes from your heart. I'm ignorant of this Sharia law but is that true? if you choose to change religions that should be punished by death? I have difficulty believe that. Either way, this is sad. SheikhaS Wheres Liban when you need him!! :lol: Lionheart "Let there be no compulsion in religion: Truth stands out clear from Error: whoever rejects Taghut (evil) and believes in Allah hath grasped the most trust worthy hand-hold, that never breaks. And Allah heareth and knoweth all things. " (Qur'an 2:256)] If this man wishes to convert to Christanity than he has free will to do so..its not Sharia Law that muslim have been practising for over 1000 years that stops him..its ignorant people that interpet Sharia Lw anyway they please to without knowledge. This man 600 years ago in Bagdad or Cairo or Damascus would be free to convert to any religion he wants. After all Allah(SWT) is the ultimate judge. sniper420
Choco and her pimps kicked him out ..... :lol: Chocoholic Sniper, he's on honeymoon after getting married, you moron. Stop wrecking threads. fayz Thank you for the clarification Lionheart, I was pretty sure as a muslim you had the choice to change religions if you so wished without penalty of death. Liban
No rule in Sharia law to kill someone who turns his back on Islam. Perhapes there is something in Sunna but these are not binding.
God will judge man but man will not judge man in this case. sniper420
LIBBBBBBBBBBBBBBBBBBBBBBBBBBBBBBBBBBBBBBBBBBBBBBBBBBBBBBBBBBBBBBBBBBBBBBBBBBBBBBBBBBBBBBBAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAANNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNN!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! :wav: :occasion1: :occasion9: :hello1: :headbang: :rr: :joker: :flower: :albino: :bounce: :drunken: Let's let's PARTY!. Welcome back my old adversary.... it was getting boring cos I didnt have anyone to mess with (oh no no no, those special Brits are already messed up). Liban it's time u prove u love Canada and avenge what has happened to u....... so let's LOCK and Load 8)
And yeah there isnt any sharia rule which punishes the renegade.....

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yshimy Liban, Welcome back man... Seems someone with a rifle have been missing you ;) ALOT.. Hope Mrs Liban don't see this post and start getting second thoughts. hehehe J/k Well, about the post.... I thought Taliban was out.... So what the hell the "collation forces" have been doing for few years????? :shock: kanelli Very sad that this man's own family turned him in. In an article his dad said that if his son had to die for Islam, that so be it - he had shamed his family. Wow, with a father like that... :evil: I thought that Muslims were supposed to respect Christianity because Jesus was also a prophet? Why the harsh stance on being Christian? GAB Yeah, sad indeed. The Muslim religion embodies peace, love and tolerance, so from my point of view it was out of sync. Interesting Liban-this is then man's misinterpretation of God's law, so to speak. HP hahaha i knew Choco will write this topic . Anything go against muslims or anyone ever find any thing to throw the mud on muslim , choco will the first person to write it down in dubai forums :P Everyone is free to chose religion , so afghan govt shuld respect the decision of that guy. :wink: sniper420
She wasnt shaggin the religion instead was trying to point out the fact that Aftghan gov is misrepresenting the religion. Dubai Knight
Ain't that always the way. The politicians get hold of religion and use it for their own ends. There are also too many historical examples of the church getting hold of politics and using it to supress the people.
Lets all convert to Jedi and confuse the hell out of politicians and the church! What would they do then when they had no-one to control?
Knight HP sniper
i did not mean sweetheart if she was shagging the religion . I meant she would always find interest in such kind of articles.

lets all convert to Islam (sunni) and then there will be no suicide bombing , no middle east issue , no 911 :P . Just imagine Choco wearing abay and looking at beach like desperate arab girls :P Chocoholic HP, For goodness sake get a life! I wasn't aiming at putting Muslims or Islam down at all. You're typical in your judgmental and preconceived ideas of people in this forum to think that. Mearly the point is, it's this mans choice. No man has any right to persecute him for his decisions or choices. Apparently now, he might be set free soon, as the Afghani President is bricking it after outcries from people around the world and letters from the Pope. HP, the point is, if this man is put to death for converting to Christianity it will only go to reinforce many peoples opinions that SOME Muslims are intolerant of other people and their beliefs, which goes against everything Islam stands for. Get that through your thick head once and for all. Plus what kind of society are we living in when someone is threatened with death over their belief - it's pathetic. And like I said before you don't see other countries handing death penalties for people converting to Islam do you. Wake up HP! sniper420 this new proves Afghanisthan didnt change much even after Taliban regime fell. One good thing when Taliban was there, they tried to reduce opium which was so prevalent b4 taliban regime, now after 2003 it has doubled! many warlords own helicopters and enough money to have huge army! Kharzai's government only holds 30% of Afghanistan.........the rest are Wild Wild West...
Dubai Knight
Totally agree with Chocaholic!
I been telling HP to go to sleep in other threads...its the best place for him!
There have been many times when people were persecuted (lethally) for conversion to christianity, the worst being The Spanish Inquisition, although this thankfully disappeared in the dark ages. The Afghan politicians may take heed of the international pressure upon them to rescind the decision, as the potential embargoes would be punitive, however I am not sure what notice they would take of the Pope.
Technically, the Roman Catholic Church is a pseudo-political entity, having a land based 'country' of it's own the form of The Vatican, is ruled by an autocratic demagogue, is backed up by enormous financial infrastructure and governs the life of millions all around the world. However, it cannot effectively impose sanctions that would alarm or upset a non catholic country.
The only thing we can be thankful for is the international media being able to expose the story and thereby create the furore that could save this guys life. It is vital to have a free press, or access to freedom of speech through mediums such as this very forum. Re-iterating your words, 'No man has the right to persecute him for his decisions or choices' similarly, we should have the right to free expression in all circles of life. It can only be restricted when the mores of legal decency or incitement are broken. Then it is the place of a duly elected and empowered democratic system to make the decision.
Knight ilfab The poor fella will be released, yes but on the ground that he is insane...

Excuse my french, but that make a world of a difference !
It means that those morrons that govern Affganistan won't admit that u have the right to choose ur own religion or change it...
And once again some people interpret Quran in their on interest to justify another crime...
Is anyone ever going to do something about it ?
I mean why some Muslim country in the world don't stand and say something when people commit a crime in the name of Islam??? Chocoholic Sadly I suspect he might get released and then lynched on the outside, then the Afghani governemtn can deny any involvement. sniper420
in that case I guess he will need protection from international force or ISAF forces there.....it's sad to see ppl retrograding and projecting bad image of religion........if u read Moors in Spain some 5 hundred yrs ago, there were advanced compared to ppl in Afghan today. MaaaD he was released to undisclosed location this morning. he will probably leave and get asylum somewhere except germany where he has a criminal record. it seems to me today the fastest way to make international headlines is to be muslim and do something reallly anti-mulsim. i.e speak for the war on iraq, and against the palestinians .. or just converting to christianity. being mulsim anti-mulsim is the new cool thing to be ! kanelli Saying that the guy is insane is probably the excuse they are using to let him off and still save face. Who cares - the guy will escape with his life :) fayz His life maybe, but not with his daughters which means his family accomplished what they wanted to, blocked his ability to be with his children. kanelli I read after the fact that he had had a falling out with his family, so that is why his parents reported him in the first place. Sad about the whole family situation :( sniper420
that is god damn true......did u see the "muslim madonna" in CNN the other day........ :lol: Chocoholic The man has found asylum in Italy. sniper420
YAhooooooo.....Now all he has to do is to write a book stating "the struggles with Islam fundamentalists" and he shall have some good cash. :D Dubai Knight
But surely...he is registered as 'insane'?
Understand he is sponsored by the Pope...nice sponsor!
Knight Liban I really couldn't care less about this guy.... kanelli Yeah, because he's not Muslim? You don't care that he could have been killed because he is Christian? Liban
Bla bla bla....
I don't care not because some Afgan decided to change religion. People convert to Islam or Christianity or Confucionism (to name a few) every day.
There are more important things in the world that are happening than some farmer's religious happenings! kanelli This one man's story highlights the fact that non-Muslims are being and will continue to be persecuted in Afghanistan. An Afghan person should not have to choose between their religion and their country. Liban Funny you don't say anything about Muslim persecution in say, Israel.... arniegang here we go same old record dum de dum de da la la ding dong :roll: :roll: Chocoholic Well the guys are right Liban, once again you turn your back on people just because they belong to your 'flock'. Welle veryone has a right to choose and this man should never have gone through any of his ordeal - it was disgusting. And the fact that he was turned in by his own family is shameful. sniper420
well in that part of the world they regard apostates as criminals ....so any decent family like any part of the world will turn em over to police kanelli
Actually I have, but in this case we are not talking about the same circumstances so I haven't brought that into this thread. You see, I try to be as logical and on-topic as possible Liban :lol: Chocoholic And now I read in the paper that there's uproar because people are saying he shouldn't have been let go and should have been given the death sentence. What the hell kind of world are we living in. It's very very sad! kanelli As an atheist I guess I would have been killed long ago - everyone of every religion would want my hide for not belonging to their faith. Sounds ridiculous doesn't it? :lol: Religion can't be forced on people and people should be free to choose what they believe in. Chocoholic Absolutely Kanelli. Same here! Although I'm agnostic but same thing. Dubai Knight
I always claim to be 'Jedi' as it is a fictitious sort of religion from a Galaxy Far Far Away...but I have been asked if that is 'Christian Jedi' or 'Muslim Jedi'? :lol: :lol:
Knight Liban
My people???
I am not Afgani....
You've lived in the Arab world for how long??? Yet you still know little of it...? kanelli Jedi Knight :lol: Dubai Knight
Dat's me!
(Mind you, getting the Lightsabre serviced in Dubai can be a bitch!!) :lol: :lol:
Knight Chocoholic Liban, I know you're not Afghani! Durgh! I meant Muslim 'flock' or brotherhood, any which way you want to put it. DK, May the force be with you! And remember, do not give into hate, it only leads to the dark side. Dubai Knight DK, May the force be with you! And remember, do not give into hate, it only leads to the dark side.
Yes, Master Yoda... 8) arniegang Blimey we will have the Star Trek mob i( Trekkies) n here soon wearing their pointy ears :lol: :lol: Dubai Knight
Illogical, Captain!
:lol: :lol: :lol:
Knight Chocoholic Live long and prosper! Now make it so! Hehehehe, You'll wish you'd nenver said that Arnie, I'm such a trekky! Liban God... Thank God Enterprise was cancelled or else you would be more pumped about Star Trek.... Sheesh! Liban
The kind of Islam practiced in Afganistan is not the true Islam....
Burqas? Women barred from education and jobs?
Please, WTF is that all about!!!! :shock: Dubai Knight
So the true Islam...is that practiced in KSA? It is the centre of the Islamic faith, is it not?
Where women are not allowed to drive, or even to walk in the street with a man who is not her husband or a blood relative? Makes it a little difficult for her to get a job as well don't you think? She could always vote to get these privileges...but that is disallowed as well.
I understand the background to protecting and respecting women and also to 'not putting temptation in the way of men', but how far does it have to go before 'protection' becomes 'restriction' as in basic human rights?
I am not speaking from heresay or even as someone who has an axe to grind, but I do think Islam needs to think about 'modernising' or at least liberalising some of it's views. These are basic human rights after all.
Knight arniegang
OMG no but yea but no but yea but.............
Chocs do you have an anorak and a pad and pencil as well ??
:lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: Liban
Did I say that Saudi practices Islam correctly. Their version is just as crappy.
The House of Saud implemented their version of Islam which is just that, a VERSION.
True Islam is not practiced there either. kanelli What is true Islam? If it was that easy to interpret or follow, there would only be one true Islam. As with all faiths, there are many interpretations. Liban
The true Islam is the Islam in the Quran. Not the one that is tailored to fit a patriarcal society, such as the one prevalent in the Islamic world today.
There is only one interpretation of the Quran. God's Quran. What others do is twist it for their own demented purposes.
I refer to those people as losers too :) Chocoholic Well in that case Liban, I can understand your frustrations. By the way Voyager was the best Janeway kicked butt! Arnie, I'm not a trainspotter, and no I don't have a thermos flask either! Liban
Its not frustration but rather a feeling of being annoyed at the current state of world events.
Oh and Voyager SUCKED MAJOR ASS....
Enterprise was the way to go... Chocoholic But Enterprise was pre-star trek. couldn't get into it. Plus I just can't get Scott Bakula out of my head playing Sam Becket in Quantum Leap - now there's a show! Liban
Quanum Leap was a good show.
I dunno, I think that Enterprise its last year was superb.
Order of good Star Treks:
1 - Originals --> Crappy AV, but great character warmth
2 - DS9 --> Good AV, character interaction improved in the "dark phase" of the Dominion wars
3 - Enterprise --> I like T'Pol :) And also the series seemed promising
4 - ST: TNG --> It only did so well because people missed TV Star Trek after 20 years or so of no TV Trek. The show itself was not great per say.
5 - Voyager --> So boring with their dumb Delta Quadrant. Kept hoping for some Borg cube to destroy them or perhaps 7 of 9 going pyscho on their asses..... Dubai Knight
Now 7of 9...she could go psycho on my ass anyday!
Don't suppose there are any REAL anoraks out there who remember Blake's 7? Or for the youngsters: 'V'?
I have had a quick flick back through this post and I have to say it is quite bizarre how a discussion on the Quran and Islam has morphed into one on dodgy sci-fi series of the past! Where are we going here?
Knight arniegang Blakes 7 was brill Liban
:lol:
Less flames this way!!! :D
:lol: Chocoholic Ahhhhh V - yes yes yes yes! There were rumours they were going to make an updated movie of it. what was with the budgie eating chick! Anyone like Dr Who? The Daleks you to scare the heck out of me - not bad for a pepper pot! Liban
British Sci-Fi sucks!!! :D Dubai Knight
Quite fancied the heroine of that one. Interesting fact file: The guy who played the alien who fell in love with the earth girl and created the 'Starchild' who saved the world...was Robert Englund. Aka. Freddy Kruger!!! He went on to write the Nightmare on Elm Street series and spin offs and played the lead part. Not so stoopid after all!
The Daleks!
Can't believe they used to have me hiding behind the sofa! Of course I never realised that all you had to do was go upstairs...and the were knackered!
:lol: :lol:
Knight Dubai Knight
The attempts at serious stuff does. Check out Red Dwarf though. If that doesn't make you laugh...nothing will!
Knight Liban
I heard of that... :)
What I will say is that British actors are awesome for Sci-Fi movies. Somehow it sounds much more convincing with an English accent than with an American one... Actually even for epic movies the English accent is better....
But when you think logically... As if a Roman centurion or an Orion slave trader is going to speak in UK English :P Dubai Knight
Have to agree, John Wayne or Charlton Heston as Roman centurions?? Doesn't work! :lol: :lol:
As for Kevin Costner in Robin Hood Prince of Thieves...Pah! Morgan Freeman was good as Aziz though!
:lol: :lol:
Knight Liban
Yes Morgan Freeman did do a very good Aziz. Though the Moors were not black :P arniegang Chocs EXTERMINATEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE :lol: :lol: Dubai Knight
Well he was quite pale...
:wink:
Knight Liban
As pale as the night sky in the Arabian desert :) Chocoholic Sorry bit behind on this one. I found some Red Dwarf series in Carrefore! I love it ! 'Smeeeeegggg Heeaaaadddd' 'Smoke me a kipper - I'll be back for breakfast!' - hehehehe Yeah Robinhood was a pretty good movie, but an American Englishman and a Scottish King of England - Hhheeeeellllllooooooo!!!!! Although I loved Alan Rickman as the Sheriff of Nottingham - the man is genius! Dubai Knight
Alan Rickman! Now there is a superstar!!!
Absolutely perfectly cast as Snape and he was about the only good thing in the original Die Hard! did you see him doing his p*ss take Spock impersonation in Galaxy Quest? Total genius!
Huge fan!
Knight :lol: :lol: :lol:



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