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Accept her as "SHE IS"


asc_26 I thought this is just plain rumour, because I believe virginity one's broken can never be restored not until I read the article "Clinics Restoring Virginity Controversial" in gulfnews today. Hmm good business for surgeon specialized in this "restoring thing".
Question 1: Why on earth these single ladies would go for surgical operation? If their husbands found out they're not the "first", would it mean they'll be return or got divorce?
Question 2: The procedure is banned if perform to single ladies and OK for married women. Why on earth these married women want to restore such hymen?
I pity those ladies in this situation. Men in this situation are narrow- minded, and don't know LOVE. Can they not accept the bride as she is? Regardless of her past?
Shed some lights.
bear
Weird as it may be, being completely honest, Some men have very strange fetishes fayz My 2 fils, This type of surgery is starting out a marriage with deception, you are hiding something from your partner, and that alone is why I don’t agree with this. Also asc, don’t turn into an A$$HAT :-P :P :P (stay tuned for the other thread, I need to get back in there I’m in building suspense mode :P )this likely has nothing to do with the guy, at least not how I read the article people are doing this surgery while Finance’s are traveling, etc. as mentioned. If you are going to commit your life to someone, best to be up front right at the beginning, deal with it and then go forward and build a better life together imho For the story: Not_Sure HAHAHAHHAHAHAH are u saying...if shes a convicted criminal...i shud disregard her past? Are u saying...if she..ehem works for money i shud forget her past.... You stupid girl.....if ur garbage...then stay garbage...dont pretend to be someone else... No...it is not acceptable if a guy works hard to get what he wants...and ends up with trash...sorry...the world is a big place...u cant offer it...ill go elsewhere and get it. Francheska Actually it is quite popular between the Arab women. It has been praticed since ages. Q 1: Yes, depends on the circles - divorced, returned or worce in some nearby countries. Q 2: Strange law. Love in the Arab world is different. sage & onion
Totally agree with you Fayz, the following letters are also a firm indication of the areas opinion. Unknown Devil
I am not standing up for men of the world. But say love comes first then marriage then already it's a relationship where both sexes trust each other. But if it's marriage like an arrange marriage then if found out then theres a qustion of trust. What do u think a girl wants from life. She wants to get settled with a guy who is stable in his senses, practical, looks etc but above all trust. Say they get married and next day after marriage she somehow finds something which she shouldnt about her husband. Then would u think she could trust a man like that. Same is the case of girls virginity. There are some females in this world who hide the facts just to get stable relationship and they will hide it saying shes a virgin and all and saying she will kinda have it when she gets married and stuff but when the real time comes and gets discovered, do u think shes trustable then.
Because a women's virginity is the most important thing in her life, I think, So when she lies about it then it becomes bad. Btw this is my point of view. maybe am right or maybe wrong. Francheska As I wrote : Love in the Arab world is different and much more materialistic than any Christian mind can imagine. The Muslim lovers are providers as it is written in the book and therefore expect women to obey them. Sadly the book was written 14 centuries ago. Now adays some not so conservative individuals fight for their freedom of choice and live as they please. Hopefully in future less women will have to undergo the surgery. ShahidSA I find it strange that people jump to disapprove this surgery while allow cosmetic sugery, both aimed at repairing what has been changed naturally. Now too much of something is also bad, what if some one was raped and she would want to have a fresh start , this could be helpful. On the lighter side, what about the same procedure for men :-) that could be possible in certain US States I believe...:-; Warm Regards Coops
I think if she lies about it, then it is a bad thing, and you shouldnt start a marriage with this sort of deception - BUT i dont think it is the most important thing in her life!
Maybe in the past (very very distant) when it was important that a women had not slept with anyone else prior to marriage to ensure all her children are her husbands. But in this day and age, surly a women virginity is just as important as a mans!

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sage & onion
And what procedure would that be?? Francheska Men are the biggest hypocrites of all. They go to the bars, pick up half naked Moroccan, Lebanese or Russians and have fun. Often sleeping out of their homes and leaving their wives and kids frustrated for their future. Often men spend bigger portions of their income on the above mentioned loose women. Can men be trusted??? How you expect a trustable wife if you can't respond with trust? I am truly happy when guys like that end up with some trash who have had the surgery. And than the divorce rate in the Emirates is over 50%. Not_Sure amaaaaaaaaaaaaaaazing! :) unfortunatly, all the good girls seem to lack the skills How do u expect us to satisfy our women if we dont prastice before hand! :) Francheska Most of "your" women never really enjoy, but pretend to please you. They know how to find the time and place to enjoy with another person. So: TAKE HER AS SHE IS, if you love her and make her love you, all will be fine! bear
I disagree with you wording here. From my knowledge of islam and christianity, also based on your comment, I would hope that you meant to use Western instead of Christian and Arab instead of Muslim .
I'm sure that you have enough knowledge of religion on a whole to understand that what you are commenting on is a Cultural Practice and not religious. Both Christianity and Islam note the reasons to practice chastity.
Lets please understand the difference between religion and culture. If you think it is strange that an arab man would prefer to marry a virgin, then you may be shocked to hear that It used to be common practice in Scotland, Ireland, and England for any King and sometimes ranks as low as magistrates to exerciser their monarchical right to sleep with and impregnate any new bride on her wedding night.


by "the book" I'm pretty sure you are eluding to the Qur'an. and allow me to clear something up for you. The Qur'an was written around about 630 AD. That puts it right at 1,377 years ago, or as you said, 14 Centuries ago (more or less). The Hebrew Bible, better known as the Toura or Old Testament was written in around about 650 BC, that puts it at right about 2657 years old, 26 and a half centuries. While the new testament, was first printed in greek in 1516, but that is nothing more than the life of the Prophet Jesus (Eisa in islam, Peace Be Upon Him) as seen through the eyes of his followers. Not unlike the Muslim Hadith, which was the stories and teachings of the Prophet Mohammed (reffered to as "The comforter" in some versions of the bible, Peace be upon him).
Shafiqe, if you read this, please correct me if I am wrong on the history of the Qur'an and Hadith.
Any Christian, please correct me if I am wrong on the history of the Old and New Testament. Francheska Is it only my wording that you disagree???? Or the point of view?? Culture any where in the world is strongly influenced by religion. That's why some celebrate Christmas and some Eid. But the culture in all the Arab countries is different due to economic circumstances, while the religion remains the same. bear
True there are some men that are scum.
What you fail to realize though, is that there are women who are scum as well.
I do not understand your heat on the subject. There are bad people of each gender.
I further do not understand why you are preaching promiscuity. What works for some, doesn't work for others. Is it so hard to come to terms with that.
by the way, Reading between the lines of your comments, I fear that I may be correct in thinking that you believe the Arab and/or Muslim community is one of barbarism.
Deducing that you are a westerner of some nationality by the name Francheska (that I assume is your name) and based on your previous comments are Christian as well. Having said all that, I acknowledge that assumption is the mother of all F&$% ups. In retort, I quote you.

that doesn't sound barbaric at all. bear [quote="Francheska"]Culture any where in the world is strongly influenced by religion. That's why some celebrate Christmas and some Eid.
Again, I think your are mis-using the words Religion and Culture. Christmas, and Eid are both Religious holidays. They are not cultural.

You started by sighting religion, now economy. What is your argument? kashif
Totally agreed with your comments on this post bear.
Christianity and Islam both preach chastity. I was in new york this past summer when i had gone for a bus ride, the tour guide quoated us "as late as early 1900 century christian women even in new york used to practice chastity".
Both the religions were sent by the same god, ppl only need sense to understand this simple fact. Mohammed & Eisa(peace be upon both of them, were guilded from the same source).
The difference in ppls view is based mostly on cultures thats about it.
^ian^ I'm a virgin. It rocks. bear There you have it folks... Ian is fit to marry an Arab... The bidding will start at AED 50. bear There you have it folks... Ian is fit to marry an Arab... The bidding will start at AED 50. bear There you have it folks... Ian is fit to marry an Arab... The bidding will start at AED 50. Bleakus
Pardon me??? what does that suppose to mean sauron
I bid one camel. But he has to have the test before I hand it over. Unknown Devil
I bid one fish and 25 fils. :D asc_26
Fayz: Of course they'll do it for the guy on the assumptions that the man whom they'll marry will only accept them as "virgin", otherwise she's already garbage as per not_sure.
Not_sure: Don't go too far. Stay on topic. PAST - means her past relationships before marriage. And why "money" is included in the topic here? :roll:
I am stupid for bringing this topic here? :roll: You work hard to get the virgin girl, go ahead, no one is stopping you.
The point of this topic is: Restoring virginity is a form of deception. The woman here is no longer true to her partner. Why not accept it that she met someone before you? Not_Sure mmmm....i was referring to
Question 3: I pity those ladies in this situation. Men in this situation are narrow- minded, and don't know LOVE. Can they not accept the bride as she is? Regardless of her past?
u cant expect me to read ur mind...be more specific next time of what kind of past ur talking abt :$
:D asc_26
Not_Sure: There's no question # 3. I don't know how Im gonna explain this to you. Even contextual readers can understand what i am trying to say here. asc_26
Cosmetic surgery is making more beautiful I believe, which wasn't destroyed thru intimacy. So it is not the same.

Healing for a raped victim will not help by just restoring her hymen. Acceptance that she was a raped victim & it's not her fault will help her heal fast. Accept her past that she was raped & love her will make her feel good as a person. Hiding from the man that she was raped by restoring her hymen is not helping herself. It is making her the worst & not healing her soul.

Which procedure? I would suggest you to make another thread for this. :wink: alexandra i have read that article earlier today. i think that before judging any woman who does that surgery it would be fair to know her reasons. i feel the problem is more complex and goes beyond the the western-arab thing. it;s a matter of a personal choice and i agree that is also influenced by cultural norms, or religion. in some parts of the world loosing the virginity is something "cool" something u can brag about with ur friends. in other parts keeping ur virginity is a cherished virtue. something else: men who dream and wish of having a virgin wife, as they go and have sex with every woman available r such hypocrits :twisted: same goes for women who sleep arround with men but before marriage they go "shopping" for a brand-new hymen :roll: and i agree that if a man trully loves u he wont care more about a hymen rather than for who u really r. ShahidSA I was only joking about men in my ealier post, there was no such proc in my mind. Now there is a bit of religious twist in the later threads and I therefore would like wiser men of this forum (I think one use ask Shafiq to reply who I hope has a lot of religious knowledge) TO provide the inside to the following Quranic Versus and what they actually set a standard or moral conduct? Surah An-Nur:24-2,3 The adulterer marries not but an adulteress or a Mushrikah and the adulteress none marries her except an adulterer or a Muskrik [and that means that the man who agrees to marry (have a sexual relation with) a Mushrikah or a prostitute, then surely he is either an adulterer, or a Mushrik. And the woman who agrees to marry (have a sexual relation with) a Mushrik or an adulterer, then she is either a prostitute or a Mushrikah. Such a thing is forbidden to the believers. ------------------------------------------------------------------- By the I did not like the way one write mentioned Kuran as just a book, it is not polite to talk about Kuran in that tone and I certainly did not like it and am not going to be apologetic in any way , it is The Book-Holy Kuran-final message of GOD to mankind. Francheska Men make the women like that. The religion allows them to marry 4 wives at the moment. Moreover the divorce is very easy and simple. It takes to say 3 times "I divorce you" in front of two witnesses (who can be his drinking buddies). Eventually second divorce will follow and she is left on the street. If she is alone it's alright, but if there are kids, it's very complicated. 1. If she is alone, she has to find another one to marry. Otherwise, she has to go back home where she won't be very welcomed if the family is not wealthy and capable to take care of her.Please note: most of the Arab women are not used to work and depend on them self's. Most Arab women are raised with the believe that their husbands will provide for them. So this is why many opt for restoring virginity and not mentioning the previous marriage. I know somebody who first got married at 12 and by the age of 34, she was looking for the 6th husband. 2. If there are kids, it's a miserable life for all of them. The courts will give them very minor alimony and the woman has to struggle and eventually find her self a work in order to support the family. Many women leave their children with the fathers simply because they can't provide for them, not because they don't love them. :cry: So the surgery in question in many cases can secure second or third chance for a woman. Francheska ShahidSA Healing for a raped victim will not help by just restoring her hymen. Acceptance that she was a raped victim & it's not her fault will help her heal fast. Accept her past that she was raped & love her will make her feel good as a person. Hiding from the man that she was raped by restoring her hymen is not helping herself. It is making her the worst & not healing her soul. =============================================== Well I totally concur with you but its easier said than done for those girls that have been raped. I am not in favour of such procedures but the fact is they are reality and happening, so what we do about it. We go on and talk about it as if we are living in an ideal environment, if we were, theses things would not happen or would not cause girls to go to that level as to repair. By the way out of curiosity how can the surgery repair whats lost, I mean i do not know the procedure but I feel obnoxious in asking it :-) Cheers sauron I saw the article too and the bit that got me was the bit about having a proper, longer term job done or a bit of a temporary patch up a few days before the wedding! For whatever reason they have it done, at least their damage can be repaired, unlike the thousands of women who are forced to undergo female circumcision...but maybe that's another thread. shafique Francheska you seem to have a chip on your shoulder about Islam. Islam is not unique in advocating chastity before marriage, it is a part of all major world religions. Islam does not say that only women should be chaste - men too are subject to the same commandments, and therefore those who sleep around are indeed hypocrites for wanting to marry a virgin. I know many Christian men as well as Muslim men who are virgins or were virgins when they got married - and I suspect there are many Jewish men in the same situation. Now, for the topic at hand - I agree with observations that this is a deceipt being carried out - it is a fraud. Just because men can get away with sleeping around does not make it right - two wrongs do not make a right. In my opinion, either choose to sleep around before marriage and find a partner that accepts you as you are, or choose to lead a chaste life and be faithful to the marriage. This goes for both men and women. As for Islam or other religions being 'old fashioned' for advocating that coitus be limited to marriage, all I can say is that the men of the world are very grateful to the women who think this way. Cheers, Shafique bear I'm sorry, but I think you are very gravely misinformed about Isalm.

Do you have any concept of the reason for this? A man may take up to 4, however there are some governing rules that go along with it. The Qur'an says (translated and paraphrased):
"If you fear for the welbeing of orphans, then marry one or two or three of your choosing". Be fair and just between them. But you can never be fair and just between them so marry only one.
This can be interpreted any way one's mind sees it. The most common interpretation is that a man may take a second wife to care for widows and orphans. Why would he marry to take care of them? So that he may visit the family and care for them without the society they are a part of accusing either or them with an illicit relationship, thereby casting dishonor on the man or the family he is caring for.
I would gladly go into greater detail if you wish.

You were almost correct with this. You left a little bit out though. True saying "I divorce you" 3 times before 2 witnesses is grounds for a divorce to be accepted. However, you did not mention the rules that go along with it. "Itlak" (spelling?) may only be uttered when the mind is not clouded by anger, and must be spaced out over a certain amount of time. I'm not sure of the time, someone else needs to clarify that.
Divorce is something that God made permissible, but is still a thing that is most hated by him.

The people that you are speaking of in this comment may be Muslim by name and by word, but are not Muslims in conduct.
Regarding the rest of your post. You seem to have a very corrupt understanding of how women are viewed in Islam and of Islam as a whole. This again is why my argument is that you are using the name of a religion to describe the conduct of a culture. gtmash
Exactly. Bleakus
dude, why dont you go study the religion before you write BS on this forum. If you see that that there are things that you see are wrong in the religion, why dont you read books about it that subject and ask why before saying things like these.
Every post you have posted so far was just bashing islam.....if you dont believe in islam, no body is pointing a gun at your face and telling you believe in it.
Either you go and understand the religion properly and argue about specific subject or stop spitting out crap which are untrue about islam.
your views about the divorce subject are wrong by the way... Francheska Bear, my "very corrupt understanding of how women are viewed in Islam and of Islam as a whole'' is very strongly influenced by the reality that we face daily trough personal experience, mass media, relatives/family stories and all sorts of social interactions. Yes, the book says that all the wives should be treated fair, but practically this is impossible as no one can love few people in the same way. & is not only men who marries widows as second wives in order to protect them. Women, children, land, cattle, gold, horses etc are considered beautifying for men (sura 3.14 Al Imran). Until today many man are married to few women at one moment. Example: guy from another emirate has his local wife from the arranged marriage at home. Apart from that he has another wife for the weekend in Dubai. If he is relatively honest, she will be legally married, but if he is not she is only a mistress. Usually it will continue for a year or few and new "wife" will be favored. What happen with the divorced wife??? In the tabloids there is an expression "toyboy", here is "toy wife" Example: another one build on his own land 3 houses for his three wives and their children and they use the family car in turns after another. He is a good man and try to be fair, but one of the three really has captured his hearth. He spends money equally, but passes his time with the favored one. All of the wives and kids are provided. Example: Indian Muslim has his 2 wives in one bedroom flat and takes turns to spend his nights with them. Imagine their feelings.One will try to run away, but she is not virgin any longer. Who will take her? Typically the wife is useful and interesting until she reaches her 30 and by the time delivers few children. Many Arab women are getting divorced around that age. How they are supposed to continue their life??? Back to the subject: many of the women who opt for the surgery to restore their virginity are sill young and can find another husbands who will treat them better. But the husbands want "virgin brides" as everybody wrote and read and as the society and family demands. So what are those girls supposed to do?? Continue as widows only because they have been mistreated for a short period by irresponsible indecent men. It may not be right and is not something that they like to discuss openly, but it is still an option. And if the deception is not known, is not considered as a sin. I seriously advocate the freedom of choice. People shouldn't be forced by social stigmas and religious preaches which were relevant at the time when written, but hardly applicable today. We don't live in the 15th or the 19th centuries that you guys are using in defence of your points of views. We live in 2007. Another strong argument: now that Dubai become so cosmopolitan city with well developed economy , what about the development in the human rights direction? All should go parallel. We cant progress if our minds are restricted.The double standard of living should be over. Read this and think why it was written: http://www.un.int/uae/Stde10-10-06.htm P.S.: Muslim here with name Francheska as a mask. Galactico
That is So true
If you are a muslim Francheska then can you refer to "the book" has you state in your posts has the Quran becuase you are sounding disrespectful has your making out it is some normal book which you has a muslim should know that is not true. Francheska On the contrary, only due to high respect don't want to name it in a chat forum. bear And again I say

If you are a Muslim, you should understand that.

P.S. I'm a Texan using Bear as an alias. shafique Francheska - you seem to be missing the point that Muslim men that abuse women are doing it despite the teachings of Islam, not because of it. The majority of Muslim men are decent and not abusive to their wives - following the example of Prophet of Islam, may peace and blessings of Allah be upon him. Also please note also that you need to differentiate between culture and religion - Malaysian, Indonesian and Iranian women are just as muslim as Saudi and Emirati women - yet the veil etc is not commonly worn and the women all drive, are politicians etc etc Hypocrisy is something you seem to loathe - and on that point I am with you 100%. Cheers, Shafique asc_26 Francheska pointed out strong points especially the "reality & what's really happening now" and none of you response to that. Really...really sad. Christianity teaches chastity and abstinence but not to condemn people particularly women who disobeyed it, because Christianity is more on FORGIVENESS. Thus, they don't need to opt for hymen restoration to deceit their husband to be. Unless (in rare cases) they opt to marry a shallow man who will only accept her as virgin. shafique
asc - you need to read the Bible a little more closely or speak to a priest. The emphasis on forgiveness is on those who repent, and in this regard Christianity is no different from Islam and other religions. The Bible is pretty clear on punishments and the Church is pretty strict on divorce, remarriage and the sanctity of marriage.
And the Church is pretty big on punishment for transgressors - millions have been killed after being condemned by the Church, and Christian countries have been (and continue to be) big on Capital Punishment (eg. the US today).
As for the fact that 'it is happening' - no one has avoided this issue. There always has been and always will be people who choose not to wait for marriage. Those that pretend to be virgins are hypocrites and deceivers.
I've not seen any evidence that these people are in the majority in any culture (those that pretend to be virgins and seek to deceive their partners).
For example, the Maoris in New Zealand have a big problem with wife battering - probably the highest incidence rates of any ethnic group - but I would still not assume that ALL Maori men are sadistic mysoginists, nor would I condemn their religion or culture because of the actions of these men. Yet when some Muslim men and women transgress, it seems fashionable to blame the religion! Go figure.
Cheers,
Shafique Chocoholic There was a really interesting documentary on this a couple of years ago, and much pressure actually comes from families, who still insist on taking the bed sheets used on the wedding night and proving there's blood on them, to make sure the bride was a virgin. Women from certain backgrounds actually have the surgery and have blood packs inserted, to make sure there is something to show. Very sad really. The tragedy is..and we've discussed this before...that women can break their hymen at any time during their life, particularly if they're into sports. It's a total misconception about girls bleeding the first time the make love, 9 times out of 10, it just doesn't happen. shafique Chocs - well said, agree with you on this. It's a cultural thing - the parading of the bedsheet occurs in many cultures around the world and is not something that any religion imposes. It's common around the mediterranean - amongst Greeks, Turks, Jews etc. I wonder how many of the procedures are done with the knowledge of the future husband - I think a significant proportion would know and would go along with this for the sake of family 'honour'. Just speculation on my part though. But as you say - Sad. Cheers, Shafique fayz
Hmmm tell that to the 300 odd local Emarati women I work with, some in senior positions that can buy and sell my sorry arse. Maybe older generations this was more the case but now I think most younger Khalijis go to work and can take care of themselves.
I enjoyed this thread, great way to start the morning, Bear loved your comments, Bleakus
Are they single or married yet? ^ian^ Interesting thread, but in the wrong section. The mod of this section must be too busy watching Nu Zilland flogging Ukanistan. ^ian^
You looking for a meal ticket? :P Bleakus
maybe ill be lucky to find a beautiful wife (the 3 year plan remember?) ;) ^ian^
Or you might get luckier and find a beautiful wife who earns megabucks! meaning you can stay home all day and watch Foxsports or play Wii.
:P :P :P fayz
hehehe, Dude you have to come visit me at the office, you'd be in heaven.... many are married but i'd say 30% are single you still have pretty good odds :) sage & onion Warning - Warning Thread Hi-jack in progress :lol: Bleakus
hahahaha oh come on Mr. Sage, just having a little fun ;) cyrix its very dissappointing to see some of the posts on this thread. Bleakus
you know me too well mr ian ;) Bleakus
Ill send my couriers to them with flowers and chocolates ;) asc_26 My Request: Please don't move this thread. I intentionally posted it here. :D ^ian^
But it's in the wrong section.
That's why forums have sections, to help organise posts into a coherent fashion.
Otherwise we may as well just have one section - and call it 'stuff'.
This is a cultural discussion and belongs in the appropriate section. Still, up for the mods to decide, and with Ukanistan getting pounded by Nu Zilland in the cricket, they've probably got bigger things to worry about. asc_26
Shafique, Christians can forgive the offender even without necessarily asking for forgiveness in person. Ref: The Lord's Prayer.
Yes, it is true that the Bible is very clear with its punishment but never heard Churches condemning the churchgoers by stoning or encouraging families to disowned female members who commit pre-marital S.3X.
Shafique, don't quote me wrong. I never said that "religion" as basis why those women opt for restoration. I replied citing Christianity teachings as forgiveness, same goes for Islam as what you've said. I never mentioned any ethnics races or whatsoever. Just read my post again.
RECOURSE: It's a culture thing. Agree or disagree? ^ian^
Either way, it's a cultural topic and belongs there.
Ever wonder why I don't post in culture or politics threads?
Because they're 99% horseshit . asc_26
Forumers don't often visit that section. Give me chance, for this thread only. Mod Please... shafique
asc - of course some Christians will forgive an unrepentant person, as Muslims might as well - but the point is that the forgiveness does not necessarily extend to letting them off the punishment (i.e. people who forgive their attackers who are languishing in jail).
Agree that it's a cultural thing and that injustices are done inspite of religious teachings.
Cheers,
Shafique ^ian^
The reason why they don't visit it is because they have no interest in this crap I would guess.
Not everyone is into religion or politics (or culture) and quite frankly, it makes for bad discussion and bad blood. shafique
I agree this topic is in the wrong section.
It also sometimes feels to me too that 99% of discussions there are as described by Ian - but hey, that's where I hang out. :)
Cheers,
Shafique ^ian^
You can say horseshit, it's OK! :P shafique horseshit Wow - what a breakthrough! :lol: bear
Then I guess you are not very familiar with the early years of the Vatican and Christianity on a whole.

I agree... it is Cultural
and this thread needs to be moved. Bleakus
im starting to like that word ;) ^ian^
First it was a.s.s.hat.
Then retard.
My word for February is horseshit. Bleakus my favorite words are Jamid and Chef alhaaaal damn it.....why do i always hijack threads...just like other people hijack mine all the time ;) fayz hahaha, new year new word, ^ian^
This is what happens when you post threads in the wrong section. asc_26 I am not the only member who intentionally posted a topic unfit for genchat and as far as I can remember it wasn’t move as per author’s request. Moderators, decision otherwise is unfair. Learning new words such as horseshit, ass..hat etc is appropriate for genchat topic and better than posting a topic extracted from an article in the daily paper. And telling someone those words = very appropriate for genchat. ^ian^
I think an exception has to be made for religious/political/cultural postings. Seriously, these can just cause too many problems, conflicts etc. I personally don't see any qualities in this discussion that set it apart from any other thread in that section. asc_26 There are already injected "qualities" in this thread. Ass.hat, arse.sh!T, horsesh!t, retard etc, and so it is already appropriate for genchat. ^ian^
Actually I would say Fightclub.
And don't say arse.sh!t... it's not cool. asc_26 Anyhow, back to the topic forumers. Bear, i didn't say i am very well verse with Christianity & the Vatican though I am a Catholic. Sometimes people are more spiritual than religious, and they don't take things literally. bear
Thats fine... not may people are. Myself included, I've only scratched the surface, which is why I'd rather not have a long drawn out discussion on the matter. I'd have to research it and frankly don't have the concentration for it at the moment.

Agreed, I would more or less be one of those people. :D Legendkiller
Know enough christian girls...who were having fun before marriage..and when time of marriage came...guess what...they needed their virginity back...so don't think that only muslim girls do this...but ur right it's more a culture thing...
Francheska ur knowledge of islam==> :lol: bear I don't know if it is something to laugh at Leg. One of the things I despise about humans is that they corrupt to further their goals. I'm not sure where Franchezka is from, but I do know that its a common thing for Families and even some clerics to preach their desires and cultural rules and call them religious. Which leads to a lot of young people hating the religion they were born into. Thats why there are so many rebellious teens that are outwardly demeaning of their religion. Be it Christianity, Islam or Judaism. I remember being told by a cleric when I was no more than 16 years old, that it is haram to have coitus with your wife while the lights were on. He went on to say that during intercourse my wife and I would have to maintain Islamic covering and that fellatio or any other form of foreplay is a sin. And you wonder why there are so many people who hate their religion? asc_26
LK, did you mean they are also in queue at the restoration clinic? alexandra
very true and it happens a lot.
bear u made exellent points in this thread :) Moonlight-Lady It´s very funny to read this thread and this is my first article in here. I would like to say that I hate it if somebody criticize something about the Islam and he is not checking the sense of that religion. But ok your hearth is blogged and your eyes are closed, so you can´t see the truth. Some men are not created as monogamists and this is a thing which is scientific proved. So why should it be so bad if he marry a second woman, if he take care of her and maybe of her children. Maybe he can not love everyone like the other, but he can treat them all the same. Is it better to do it like some Christians or other non-muslims? (I did not say ALL but some. it would be maybe better to say every second married man! had already at least two marital unfidelities like I took it from a statistic from Germany!!!) They are married and have some mistress which don´t know from each other and which don´t have any rights and think that they are the only one for this guy?? :roll: To come back to topic, I´m against buying the virginity, the ladies maybe can lie to the people, but there is One who is watching you all the time. And with this I don´t mean just the ladies, I mean also the guys ;) *Moonlight-Lady* bear :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D Compliments.... love em :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D freza The Holy Books are filled with transcendent teachings - which means that no matter when they were written, they're relevance is significant in the present as in the future. Basic human characteristics don't change through time; there has always been conflict, greed, injustice, etc. There has always been a need for some sort of spiritual guidance in life, and there always will be - whether it be in the 15th century or in the year 2020. Chocoholic I like the auumption by Moonlight-Lady that it's ony 'some' 'Christians' 'Non-muslims', who cheat on their spouses. I can tell you 'some' 'muslims' who have mistresses and who even pay for it. Can we not be so narrow minded round here. Anyway didn't we decide that this isn't a religious thing, but a cultural thing? bear
the point has been brought up... It doesn't seem to be catching on though...

Haha... agreed... I could tell about tons of them... Thats one thing that I'll never understand. How people will say bad things happen in a certain society of people, but those things never happen in their own. Much like the American government does. :D Legendkiller
lol...both of us know this isn't the case...let me break it down for ya (ur blonde after all :wink: )
c why do these girls want their virginity back before their marriage?
simple cause their future husband wishes to marry a virgin..
Now let's say that person A wants to marry a virgin...up to him..his life...
now..let's take person B...if he doesn't mind to marry some1 who isn't a virgin anymore...here again..is up to him...different pple prefer different things...person A could be a muslim guy...or a christian guy..or any other person...and the same goes for person B...
same can be said abt the girl..if she wants to have fun before she gets married... it's up to her..her life...but the situation here is..that these girls are not only deceiving their future husband..but also themself...in this case they should better marry some1 who accepts them for who they r...some1 who knows/doesn't mind that he is marrying a nonvirgin..
to answer ur question...think that christian guys...usually fit the profile of person B... sauron But person B is not gonna fit the profile of the ideal husband in the societies/cultures/religions we are talking about so for many of these women, he is not an option. Moonlight-Lady I would not say that some muslims don´t have mistress cause that would be a lie. What I need to remark is that especially the Arabs (not all!!!!) here in Dubai like the unfidelity, not like the arabs in other countries. But what I can say is that a guy who is married with (for example) 2 women doesn´t have the need to do such a forbidden thing. scot1870
Er, you could argue that having a 2nd wife is just the same as having a mistress! He's had one lady, wants some more and uses religion to excuse it.
Oops, anyone got a spare lid for this can of worms before it opens fully? sauron The worms are turning - away from the original topic! :lol: asc_26 This is DF sauron. Let them be. Enjoy. LK >>>>> :roll: Chocoholic Great point. For many, including myself, having two wives is just as bad, if not worse than cheating or having a mistress. Plus I knoqw plenty of guys who have their 2 wives, and still play about. Someone told me an intersting thing the other day. 'Wives are for babies, other girls - and boys - are for fun'. ^ian^
And this horseshit seriously does not belong in general chat.
I think you people should go moan about 2 wives and all the rest in the cultural section. While you're there, start a few saddam threads, and another one about female circumcision. sauron ^^^ You're the only one who is whingeing about it being here. Are you sure you are not a Pom? Stop it, or I will send Hulk Hogan to see you............ Chocoholic Put a cake in your hole Ian! No-one else minds, it's only YOU!!! ^ian^
Nah screw it.
Why do we even have sections? Why bother?
If you people want to b.itch and moan in the wrong section, accept that I'm going to b.itch and moan continuously about it being in the wrong section.
I might just throw a VAGINA in here.
And perhaps PENIS.
and CLITORIS.
Edit: And why is b.itch a censored word? It's a female dog! freza ^^^ what's up with the tantrums :!: :?: I don't hear anyone complain about all those cricket posts, and not all of us are into cricket. Those that don't like cricket, won't even bother reading the posts. Don't like this subject, why read it? This was a news item, it got people talking, what's the big deal? ^ian^
If there was a sporting section, then I would post cricket items in it.
Likewise there's a political, and a cultural section, and this is where these discussions should go.
It's called order, and without it, this place will just turn into chaos. Either that or we just have one section.
And then the hypocrisy was pretty rich too, just loved that one totally. Chocoholic If you're going to split hairs Ian, then maybe we should put it in the Ladies Forum. It's a general interest story and could be justified in several of the sections, therefore until some stupid like you puts swear words in it, and it ends up in FC I guess it should stay here. asc_26
Many Thanks Choc.
Freza...as always. :P Thanks! Not_Sure Do i see the ladies picking on a lil boy here? :D they like playing with kids dont they... haaHAHAHAHAH Ian....this is NOT HOW u bring a thread DOWN.... Plus i charge for my services....bit costly. sauron asc_26 ^^why hitler's photo here? Somebody made a thread dedicated for Hitler, would suggest you to post it there. :D sniper420
more men whining.... unless she was raped she took her chances to have relation outside the marriage knowing the society she lived and then when it didnt work she tried to fix it b4 marriage.....so why are men to b blamed....men alone didnt create the society u lived in......i guess same goes for man there as according to some of my arab friends..ppl hesitate to give their daughters to playboys or ex-playboys...As long as it works both ways i guess one shouldnt complain



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