Dubai Forums archive (old posts) - to navigate to the current version click Dubai Forums
Dubai Expat Help Dubai Chat Dubai Romance Dubai Auto Luxury Villas in Dubai Dubai High Tech Dubai Guide BMW for sale in Dubai Accommodation in Dubai Jobs in Dubai Available Professionals in Dubai Learn Arabic Philosophy Forum
Dubai Expat Forum - Philosophy and Religion Forums

Abortion


bushra21
I think you may know her actually
zam <We need a break from all the drama, lets move on and continue.... > :idea: What are your views about abortion :?: Personal belief, religion based, cultural views are all welcome. Share it. :wink: shafique Not morally or religiously against abortion as a procedure - so I am pro. Morally against it as a way of birth control though. Islamic opinion is that abortion is allowed under medical necessity and that it is not 'taking a life' if takes place before 3 months (but even after 3 months, medical necessity takes precedence over saving the life of foetus regardless of consequences) kanelli Ditto. PARANOID I'll be against it when the people who voted "against" offer a better alternative. people will always have abortions even if it got banned, no pregnancy can be maintained when faced by a couple strong punches to the tummy. If you're worried about murder then go help kids in africa stay alive. not worry about unborn fetuses who will later be abandonned by their parents. if you want to stop an abortion, then you should adopt the baby after it's born.the so called mom dosent want it so she's getting rid of it before it's too late, before the fetus becomes an unwanted baby. if you're humane alternative is to pile them all up in an orphnage then simply shut up. zam Except for Sensitive medical reasons such as: - the child or the mother have a slim chance or cant survive if the pregnancy is continued - child will be a retard/abnormal upon birth I am personally against abortion. I believe it is still murder and I am totally against it. PARANOID
well what about rape victems? the girl didn't ask to be raped.it's her right to get rid of all the results of the rape out of her body. zam Yes its not her fault. But no she does not need to abort the child coz the child is also innocent on this case. Why not give birth to the child and then put it for adoption? I know its easier said than done. But even a day or a week, or 5 weeks age of fetus, life is there. PARANOID
O RLY? how do you know that she does not "need" to abort it ? huh? you don't know.that's it. in fact most rape victems who get pregnant DO need to abort it. how will she get over the rape if for more than a couple months she'll be carrying something which reminds her of what could be the worst day in her life? yes easier said than done, totally irrational and ignorant. valkyrie
The "child" is only a theoretical thing at the point when someone decides whether or not to have an abortion, the same way that its merely a theoretical thing when a guy wanks off or uses a condom instead of having unprotected s.e.x

Adoption is a *bad* option that necessitates a far greater amount of physical and likely emotional pain (though obviously not always) for the same end result. Why should a woman get fat and have her hormones messed up for nine months, ruin her body and go through labor, for the 'adoption industry.'
http://www.utdallas.edu/~jfg021000/thomson.html

1 Dubai Jobs .com The First Place to Find a Job in Dubai
zam Grow up a bit will you and try to save the trash talking in the fight club. A mistake cannot be corrected by another mistake. Rape victims cannot get over it within weeks or months. It will take more years we can imagine for healing. Murder is murder, commiting it to a 5 yr kid is the same as aborting a 3 weeks old fetus. PARANOID
in your world, maybe.
I don't mind it when people are against abortion, it's their opinion.but the ones trying to ban it, and the ones calling the mothers murderers and holding signs and the ones murdering the doctors who perform such surgeries are scum on earth. zam Val more often than not I find you incomprehensible, your point of comparison is like heaven and an ostrich. :roll: valkyrie
Why not? The only real application abortion has is birth control. The only problem with it is that its an expensive and complicated form of birth control so easier ones are better when they work. kanelli Abortions are most certainly not useful for birth control. They are damaging to the female reproductive system and costly, and have a risk of serious side effects. No woman in her right mind would use abortion as birth control - not even considering the ethical side to it. I too think that a victim of rape should be able to choose whether to have an abortion or not if they are going to be mentally scarred by carrying a fetus for 9 months and going through the adoption process. Also, some rape victims are quite young - do we really want 9, 10, 11, 12 year olds having to give birth to babies if they can't handle it? Of course, they should receive support to get them through it, but I don't think they should be outright denied the right to an abortion. Think how hard it must be for them! If abortion is done it should be done under 3 months. I disagree that killing a 3 week old embryo is the same thing as killing a 5 year old child. From a religious perspective I can see how some people might view it that way though. shafique my turn to say "ditto" asc_26 I am AGAINST abortion. bushra21
I didnt vote in the poll because I do not know which one I fall under. For me -- it depends on each case.
According to Islam, abortion is permissible if the woman or child will be endagered.
Meaning, if the woman's health and safety is a concern during the pregnancy and giving birth, she is allowed to have an abortion. If the child is diagnosed as having any severed mental/physical deformities that would cause severe hardship on both him and the family, abortion is allowed. However, for both scenarios the abortion must be done prior to 120 days from inception (4 months).
If the woman is raped, religiously speaking, she is also allowed to have an abortion if carrying and giving birth to the child is too damaging to her physical or psychological health. This must also be carried out in the 120 days from inception.
If the woman has consensual s e x, however, and her health is not in danger, then abortion is not allowed.
Culturaly, the same rules apply....this is also my standpoint on abortion.
So I dont know, is this for...or against abortion? alexandra
well saied paranoid!
alexandra
nice alternative u put up! giving up the baby for adoption: than girl let me tell u something: u have no idea how much pain it is for a kid to grow up knowing he was not wanted: u have no clue how trumatised they r...
to abandone a baby it's a bigger crime that not bringing him/her into a f@#$ up world if u have nothing to provide him/her! u gotta think from all the perspectives... Nick81 The only and I do mean only case where I think abortion might be the way to go is rape. UNLESS you can be 100% sure that the woman's life is in danger. No, if the child has some birth defect, it is not an option. You are just applying natural selection whether you want to call it this way or not. In the end we'd end up choosing our kids' eyes color, body shape, hair color etc etc... Back to the rape case now. Have you ever met a rape victim? Have you read/watched about rape cases? A kid who is born out of rape will NEVER be loved by his "mother". I even read one case in France, where the kid was actually tortured by all family members, was hardly given any food. It was actually an acquaintance of 1 of the family members who alerted the authorities. The kid was 8 and was in a terrible condition: broken bones that had never really healed, bruises, never went to school. In summary, just a tragedy. Maybe that's an extreme case, but it DOES happen. I mean let's try to put ourselves in the shoes of a rape victim. Could you possibly love the fruit of such a "union"? The kid is innocent, but do you even think about that in such a situation? Don't think so. bushra21
Nick, you can't say that just because a woman is raped and becomes pregnant she wont love her kid. Nick81
I just did. :P I am sorry hon I am just in a bad mood today... Tell u about it when I am back in Dubai. Anyway, care to give me one good example of a mother that actually ended loving a child she got by being raped? asc_26
Is the unborn child a human being? If you can answer the above question with rationalities that the unborn child is not a human being, then I think you've justified your positions. shafique
For me, a foetus is not a child until it is capable of life outside of the womb.
Islam teaches that the life force or soul is not breathed into a foetus until 3 months, for example. A baby that is miscarried, is not considered to have been alive and does not receive burial rites.
This view by-passes the tricky questions raised about when a life is a life. The pro-life lobby in the US for example strongly argues that life begins with fertilisation of an egg. This means that all eggs in a petri dish that are fertilised with sperm have the same rights to life as a foetus.
If a bundle of cells is not considered 'alive', then the act of abortion is not seen as 'killing'.
Cheers,
Shafique asc_26
If I will used my religious catholic standpoint, I would say a fetus is already a "LIFE and so i can call it a child that has every reason and rights to live. and i quote:


Shafique, even using scientific standpoint, still they would say that the unborn child is already a human life. Once the sperm & egg meet = is the moment of conception. Not only it's a life, but by its intrinsic biological in nature, it's a human life from the moment of conception, for it can be nothing else. "To be a human being is decided for an organism at the moment of fertilization of the ovum." And i quote"

That's why I am against abortion. :D shafique Catholicism does say life begins at conception. Islam does not have the same view. Hence why we have different view points. An egg and a sperm both have the potential to become a human being. Nowadays, every human cell has the potential of being used to provide the genetic make up of a human being - via cloning. However, life itself - being able to be self-sustaining is something that defines when someone is alive. Individual cells are alive or dead, and can live outside a body - but they are not self-sustaining or have conciousness. I respect your view - if my church held the belief that life started at conception, then I logically would have to agree with you. The fact that I do not stems from my view of when life actually can be called life. Cheers, Shafique shafique Let me add that science is on the side of the pro-choice lobby. The fertilized egg is not a sustainable independent being in the early stages of pregnancy. There is no conciousness and no chance of independent life outside the womb. Cheers, Shafique Concord I'm with shafique and K on this one. I am not "pro" abortion but "pro choice". There are women who for whatever reason (not rape, not medical, and perhaps "birth control") decide to have an abortion. While morally reprehensible and against certain religious tenets I prefer to leave the choice to the woman and her family or partner (and in many cases there is no partner). I would rather that a fetus is aborted than the entire life of a child be damaged because he/she was/is "unwanted". So: Pro Choice. PS - many people argue that adoption is an option (except the many of those arguing this view will be the last to adopt - they simply want to take the "high moral road". Chocoholic Then I would suggest you try and get hold of the latest BBC documentary about unborn babies, where speicailists used brand new 3D scanning technology to look at an unborn baby, from the very early stages, through to birth. It has made the medical profession think twice about allowing abortions before 26 weeks, as the baby displays 'human' practices and characteristics even long before that period of time. Also I would definately say you have to look at children who would be born with birth defects. If they are severe, so much so, that the child will never have a decent life and always be under 24 hour care, then there are grounds for considering that. I'll give you a really good example, look at that poor little girl Charlotte, whose parents fought against the courts to stop her treatments and care to prevent her from dying. She is severely physically and mentally handicapped. Her parents after all that struggle have now split up, and the child is in a foster home as they cannot cope with looking after her on their own. Was this fair to the child? No, it never was. freza There have been medical observations/reports (via sonogram) of fetuses masturbating. zam
and so you vote for abortion?
what an Idiot! (I just need to say it out loud :oops: ) freza oh zam, you do tend to trip very often, don't you? My comment was simply meant to reflect on the human aspects of fetuses. Get it now? Good. :roll: EDIT: Just a suggestion: it would do you good not to jump into conclusions, I mean, when logic fails you, jumping into conclusions isn't that smart... kanelli Pictures of fetal development in the first trimester, second trimester and third trimester - including info on the stages of development week by week. I'd like to point out that even adults who are brain dead can still show signs of "human behaviours". A fetus may be very human like, especially after the first trimester, so that is why - ethically - the first trimester is the better choice for aborting. A fetus can sometimes survive outside the womb after 24 weeks, so late abortions are quite disturbing for me. If you've already carried the fetus that long, you might as well let the fetus live and then go the adoption route. zam
There is a thin line between intelligence and madness. I pray you are still in the middle of the two. You could have quoted a thousand other description to justify the humanity of a fetus, instead you choose such a distateful act. Whatever you say, I still believe you are one very awesome troll of DF! Much love to you :!: freza zam, First, I quote what I want. And as to masturbation being a distasteful act? oh well, don't tell that to....uh..men. Hello! Cuz 99% of them do it and the 1% lies about not doing it. Oh yeah, and women do it too, girl it's a human nature thing! I'm not a troll but if it makes you happy to call me one, then let me make you happy. :D whateva Kanelli, I still think fetuses are human at some early point. I'm not pro-abortion, I think it should be reserved for extreme cases - when it's necessary. I'm for women being responsible individuals. Yeah, I know, that's very idealistic and utopian, but this is what I believe on this subject... asc_26
I admire you on this point freza. :D Excellent standpoint! dubai girl This is an extremely personal thing. Women should be able to make a choice whether or not they carry a child (no matter what the circumstances). I am Pro Abortion, and every woman in the world should be able to decide for herself whether or not it is for her, without judgement. valkyrie
Uh its not just a matter of 'waiting a couple more weeks or days' or whatever but the fact that childbirth is extremely traumatic and no one should be forced to do it who doesn't want to.

It is extremely extremely unlikely that someone's uterus would be heavily damaged by an abortion performed in modern conditions (we're talking about a 1 in a thousand chance of any damage), its mostly a myth created by the pro-lifers.

It is one thing to want to protect people, its another thing to want to protect every bit of human DNA. A fetus is not an indepedent, self-aware, conscious person, like sperm cells that people waste casually, constantly, it only has the theorietical potential to become a person. asc_26 Val, my point is when the egg & sperm meet = is already the start of conception & the start of human life. Sperm alone is not counted here and so with eggs. Got my point? 8) shafique
Asc - not everyone agrees that human life begins at conception, hence why there are differing views on abortion = murder.
Cheers,
Shafique



Dubai Forum | Paris Forum | Vegan Forum | Brisbane Forum | 3D Forum | Classified Jobs in Dubai | Listings of Jobs in London | London classified ads Portal
| © 2021 Dubai Forums | Privacy policy