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9/11 and Al Qaeda - your perspective


shafique I try and not stereotype people. I have a theory that if the government (of any country) actually want to hide something, they create a conspiracy that is partly based on truth but that is so overblown that people reject everything, including the bits which the government was guilty of. This is, of course, unless they are caught red-handed. Instances where the US has been guilty of wrong-doings and tried to cover it up are well known and undisputed eg. Iran-Conta, various Cuba plots. In my view, people are free to believe in what they like. If what they believe is stupid, wrong or just plain biased (eg. Jews drink the blood of Christian babies - German propaganda in the 30's), the answer is not to throw up our hands in disgust and walk away, but to reason and counter with arguments and facts. The greatest danger is when people believe blindly what one side or other says. Sure, some crackpots do not deserve the oxygen of publicity (eg. would you debate with guys who say the world is flat?) - but by and large, widely held views are normally based on a credible set of beliefs that are real for those holding them. I'd be surprised if anyone on this forum believes that the US government NEVER spreads disinformation to it's populace. Once you agree that the US has lied, then all we are arguing about is the extent of this lying and whether it extends to the events of 9/11. Some choose to believe that nothingl is as it seems, others follow the official line - and there are a spectrum of beliefs in between. I'm in the middle thinking something is fishy. All that said - I think it's interesting that what universally everyone thinks is the work of less than 100people is having such an impact on the world! Cheers, Shafique
kanelli For the conspiracy theorists - - or perhaps this is where the "evidence" comes from in the first place? This site claims that airplanes did fly into the WTC towers, but then pretty much states that it was all a conspiracy. I'm sure you will enjoy it and have enough solid "facts" to support your hypothesis that US is the most devious country on the planet. :roll: shafique Concord - I am intelligent, I like to think, and have argued voiciferously with people who espouse the theory that 9/11 was a conspiracy. It does not make sense that the US would instigate an attack on the WTC. I therefore still believe that the twin towers were attacked by hijackers and that the combination of factors led to the collapse. I have seen the documentary stating all the assumptions from the consipiracy perspective for the demolition theory of the twin towers - I'm less than convinced, but have relayed what they say. HOWEVER, that is not to say that some other aspects of 9/11 'smell' funny. For instance, I think it is not beyond the realms of possibility that United 93 was shot down rather than crash landed after passengers over-powered the hijackers. I would not condemn the action - but I can see why the authorities would like to cover it up. The Pentagon crash is beyond me at this point - the conspiracy arguements are convincing, so I need to read the 'official' or counter-arguments for this particular aspect of 9/11. Another 'fact' that doesn't sit well with me is the so-called fireproof passport - which I'm hoping is an urban legend. Kanelli may have gone off in a huff - but I still think this was a useful thread to understand that there are differing views of the events of 9/11 and that the conspiracy theories aren't just based on wishful thinking but furnish arguments which on first reading looks pretty compelling. I can see why people believe in the conspiracy, even though I don't myself agree with them. I think I'm warming to the idea that there was some spin and subterfuge, but can't see the evidence of a full-scale conspiracy. (for the record, I do believe Lee Harvey Oswald acted alone and shot JFK :) and man did land on the moon :) :) ) Cheers, Shafique Concord
K, its a lot of fun and I rub my passport everytime I read this forum! Concord
"[you] are not a structural engineer" - therein lies the answer. The 'retractions" you mention relate to statements made "that day". I would imagine that many licensed structural engineers (like myself) had questions as we saw the towers fall (with the naked eye!). I have no doubt about "why the towers fell" from an engineering point of view.
The "conspiracies" will not stop but as you sound like a intelligent person and not an "agitator" I leave it to the fact that you are not a structural engineer as the reason you have "doubts". We all need not understand everything in life. I know nothing about heart surgery but... kanelli I'm done with the Politics, Philosophy and Religion Forum. It is full of too much bullshit. shafique Kanelli - I'm not convinced about the WTC, but the other two crashes (Philly and Pentagon crash) look suspicious now I've seen the documentary linked to in this thread. The crash into the Pentagon created one single circular hole in the building and the engines 'disappeared' - these engines would not melt and would hit the building and make pretty big holes next to the main hole. Similarly the United 93 crash site had very little debris when compared to similar crashes elsewhere in the world. The documentary said this was unique in crash sites - that whole planes would disintegrate leaving little debris. As for the collapse of the towers - they timed the first collapse and it took about 10 seconds, which is just a second more than a 'free fall' time - i.e.when it collapsed there was no resistance from the building structure below at all. Now, I'm not a structural engineer - but this is what experts on the day said made it look like it was a demolition (as it happened, US TV had engineers saying this - although they all later retracted the statements). The retractions add fuel to the conspiracy theorists, as does the many reports of secondary explosions (all the news channels reported this live on the day). I personally think that the planes that were flown into the twin towers were hijacked and have yet to see convincing evidence that they weren't. But this thread has raised other questions which haven't been satisfactorily answered for my benefit yet. (I mean, do you believe they could find a Saudi Passport in the rubble a few hours later and believe that this passport survived the crash and was coincidentally that of a hijacker! ? C'mon. And if this isn't true....what else isn't true? Come to think of it...I need to check whether this story of the passport was retracted - I'm sure it isn't an urban legend as I recall the news story when it came out first time) Cheers, Shafique kanelli That's right, I'm supposed to believe that the US made an elaborate plot to kill 3000 of its own citizens. It hired some Arab-looking guys who were willing to kill themselves to put on a good show on the airplanes so that people could describe that on the cell phones to their loved ones. Of course there is no way that an airplaine full of fuel would ever create so much heat on impact and continued burning that could ever take down the towers. I mean, when the Trade Center towers were built the engineers though to themselves - "Well, what if someone rams huge airline jets into the buildings?" Also, there is no way that the hijackers would have plotted to hit such tall buildings in strategic spots - they would just hit any old place wouldn't they? So sorry, of course there is no such thing as terrorism. All Muslims are peaceful people. It is only Americans who are evil. Give me a fucking break. :evil: uae75 - last time I looked this forum was full of pro-Islam conspiracy theorists who would believe anything as long as it makes all Muslims come out like innocent, peaceful, pious people. uae75
Thank you for just confirming the point of my post looool :wink: Concord
I'm glad you will. Let us know what you think. I have no doubt about it and may have a little more knowledge about the subject.

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shafique I'd be interested in hearing different opinions on what people think 9/11 represented in terms of : 1. How many people were involved in the 9/11 attacks - how many actually had knowledge and gave support to the attacks? 2. Why did Al Qaeda carry out the attacks? 3. Roughly how many people died in the attacks? (I know you can look this up - but please answer before doing so) 4. How has the world changed since 9/11? 5. Have the actions in Iraq increased or decreased the risk of terrorist attacks? I'll start things off with my views (off the top of my head): (if possible, don't read my answers before you post.. just a bit of fun, and I'm sure I'm not correct in all my answers - but this reflects what I currently believe) 1. about 40 to 50 people. 2. Bin Laden wants American troops out of Saudi Arabia and objects to US support of Israel against Palestine. 3. about 3000. 4. 9/11 in itself did not change chances of terrorist attacks - but the reactions has led to heightened security and many people dying in the war against terror. 5. Terrorism threat has increased a lot. kanelli I would have said the same as Shaf, but for question one I don't know. At first I thought more people might have known - but perhaps 100 would be too much - the plot would have unravelled if too many people knew about it. Perhaps Shaf's numbers of 40-50 are good. zam Q:
1. How many people were involved in the 9/11 attacks - how many actually had knowledge and gave support to the attacks? Agree with both of you maybe 40 - 50 people
2. Why did Al Qaeda carry out the attacks? The toughest question of all. We should ask BUSH!
3. Roughly how many people died in the attacks? (I know you can look this up - but please answer before doing so) Stubborn me...oops
:
Islamic fanatics murdered 2,823 people in New York that day. Of those casualties, only 289 intact bodies were found, and remains of 1,102 people have been identified. The latter number may increase; the Associated Press reports some 19,550 body parts have been recovered. "New York City officials said . . . the identification process will go on for months. Those parts that cannot be identified will be retained, in case new technology makes it possible someday.
4. How has the world changed since 9/11? No
5. Have the actions in Iraq increased or decreased the risk of terrorist attacks? Definitely increased
now zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz kanelli So Bush is responsible for Al Qaeda? Bush was not in office when Al Qaeda attacked the US embassies in Africa. yshimy
1) 25-30 including the hijackers
2) Retaliation for USA breaking their promise to Bin Laden to Leave Saudi after he help then in Afghanestan against Russia. + Supporting Israel + Feeling so unvunrable so it was a slap to the government arrogance.
3) 2500
4) New world order and terminologies (Axis of Evil, New crusade, if not with us then against us) War on terror.... (what is terror??) Increased the Gap between East and West, Increased the tension against immigrants world wide, special muslim minorities. And last but not least. More curiousity of the west about east and islam.
5)Increased for sure. bushra21
1. I never had given thought to how many people were actually involved. I would have to guess between 20 - 30 people. Like Kanelli said, if too many people had previous knowledge of it; the whole thing may never have had happened in the begining.
2. This is something that I have spent countless hours talking with my friends, family, and co-workers with. A family member of mine told me that it was the U.S government that was the one behind the attacks. That they had planned it out, only to aide in their crusade against Muslims. Friends have told me that its purely the hatred that Osama Bin Laden has towards westerners, that he despises their way of life and that they refuse to change their religious beliefs. Co-workers have said basically the same. Me -- well, honestly I am torn. When 9/11 happened I was devistated. I was torn inside. I didnt want to believe that it was really carried out by Muslims, yet I couldnt understand why a government would want to destroy their own country. When I heard on the news the following weeks, how they had discovered evidence on the hiijackers of their actions leading up to 9/11 I began to doubt. For instance, they had claimed that one of the hiijackers had attended a bar/club the night prior to 9/11 and that they had found a Quran he left behind in the bar/club. For me, that made absolutely no sense. Ok, the guy wants to get drunk and have sex before he dies -- makes sense, but taking his Holy Book with him to such a place; cant buy it. Also, after viewing many of the documentaries made surround the 9/11 incident, I was convinced that it was indeed some kind of conspiracy. So to be honest, and I know most will not like my opinion, but I do not believe that it is something that Muslims committed and there is something that is being left out.
3. I believe it somewhere between 2500 - 3000 individuals, unfortunately.
4. The world has not changed for the better. It has become more prejudice, judgmental, and close-minded than it ever has been. People have begun to fear things and others (more precisely arabs and muslims) in a more dangerous manner. I also believe that the world has become a more violent and dangerous place to live; and unfortunately I dont see it changing any time soon.
5. Of course those actions taken have increased the risk of attacks. Look at whats going on in the Middle East, I think that is proof enough. Concord 1. How many people were involved in the 9/11 attacks - how many actually had knowledge and gave support to the attacks? Directly: 25 to 50 (19 of them where the homicidejackers) 2. Why did Al Qaeda carry out the attacks? Because they are terrorists and murderers and wanted to kill people and in their warped mind causing death and distruction and terrorizing people is what they perceived as the solution. All they achieved is the killing and destruction of a multiple number of those who they killed on that day. They were and are wrong. 3. Roughly how many people died in the attacks? (I know you can look this up - but please answer before doing so) 1973 in NY, 50 in DC, and 68 in PA. 4. How has the world changed since 9/11? The world is more security concious and regretabbly more "suspicious" of muslims because of the actions of a few (see 1 above). Ironically it is perhaps muslims who are suffering more now after the actions of a few than the "westerners" who were killed on 9/11 (there were also many muslims killed on that day other than the terrorists). Thus Al Qaeda accomplished nothing. 5. Have the actions in Iraq increased or decreased the risk of terrorist attacks? Absolutely increased. Before the Iraq war no one ever heard of homice bombers (not suicide the main aim is homicide) now they are a daily occurence. I just read that in July 3500 civilians were killed in Iraq. There is a lot of hatred toward USA but why is it that there has never been a "suicide"bomb in the USA? I think it is because there is no need to since by in large the country is very tolerant and the laws protect everyone equally regardless of race, religion, socio economic status, etc. -(even if some people may not be as tollerant the laws and country as a whole are). P.S. This "conspiracy" crap is just that; crap. After all, 44 years after a president of the united states was assassinated (JFK) there are still chouring books and articles about the "conspiracy" behing his assasination. Some people simply had nothing better to do. arniegang
This post get's the DF "what a load of bollox" award
If i thought you were not being serious i would piss myself laughing
:roll: :roll: sniper420
ofcourse few ppl strive hard to know the other side of the story. i didnt believe in all conspiracy theories until i saw one SCIENTIFIC FACT in the 2nd edition of LOOSe change &q=911
in the whole video one thing really convinced me was free fall of the world trade centres both of em had fallen in 10 secs. some say the jet fuel melted the steel ....which is completely preposterous....... those steel were built to withstand 2000+ degrees and all the steel were melted in less than 3 hrs is illogical.......It is confirmed that explosives were placed in the building
kanelli You have got to be kidding Sniper! There were no explosives in the building. I've seen a documentary that covered what happened structurally to the towers. You should be ashamed of yourself for believing such drivel. Concord
Sniper,
Sorry, I did not know about your expertise in structural engineering!!
Watch out I think you may be hit by a piece of falling sky - I heard rumors about that one! sniper420
Ashamed?? fo what ? following scientific facts?Well I graduated from engineering and know some basic building structural facts...and i have many other civil engineering friends who accept this. if u see the documentary u will know. the photographs of the base of the buildings show sharp cuts which could only have been done by bursting the base. after the fire in 1975, in twin towers the steel was covered with asbestos to withstand 2000+ temperatures... it's obvious US wanted to find a way to increase military spending and secure resources like oil especially in a time when China is growing very fast. so bham afghanistan caspain oil and iraq war for oil....one of my rich friend whose father is in oil business when asked what do u think of 911 he answered "it was relly bad but good for business" and he is really rich after the wars sniper420
mm...... give me some logical reasons of terrorizing....or the perceived solution those terrorists thought Concord
On your first request, as I am not a terrorist so I wouldn't know. On your second request, you would have to ask the terrorist themselves with whom you seem to sympathize (please be sure to let us know their thougths). Concord
Man you should get your money back as clearly you learned nothing (same goes for your "friends'). bushra21
That is what swayed my decision. I will honestly admit I know nothing of engineering but I saw that documentary with my cousin who is an engineering majour as well as my uncle who got has his degree in structural engineering...or something like that, he builds buildings lol thats what i know. But if what they say in the documentary is wrong, and that both my uncle and cousin are wrong can someone prove it to me. Im not being defensive or anything, I just want to know. This whole 9/11 ordeal is very confusing for me, I keep shifting on where I stand. :cry: arniegang SNIPER FACT The steel with its fireproof coating was indeed designed to withstand 2000 deg C. FACT Due to the force of the explosion, the fireproofing was blown off the steel and this is the reason why the steel melted. Also it was in fact the now unprotected "welded joints" that actually melted, and thus was the cause of the collapse. arniegang Shaf It is a fact O-BL was a personal friend of the late Shiek. Right up until 2000 they regulary met up because they both shared an interest in horses and hunting. uae75 Shafique, Man you knew very well, your questions will only start another fruitless debate between both sides lol. You should have known better than to bring up such issues, which you know very well, wont solve anything, and you wont even be able to swing anyone's decision or prespective. Specially in this forum which you know is full of pro-western views who dont believe in objective documentaries that were produced by americans themselves. They rather believe the media and the government. Although if you do ask me view, i would think its the fault of both parties, Alqaeda and US government......cuz the whole thing is still fuzzy, and unconclusive. Concord
Sniker and Boushra,
I suggest you watch a documentary "why the towers fell" produced by PBS (the program is called "Nova"). The structural engineer who designed the World Trade Center (and many other skyscrapers since, including the Petronas towers) and many other pre-eminent experts explain the reasons, etc. Arnie has it correct and it is what Charlie Thorton and others explain in the documentary. You can purchase the video ( and see for yourselves). You don't have to be structural engineer to understand it (and I would not be able to explain it any better as it is what it is). You only need to read the title of the video on your hyperlink "9/11 coverup" to know its "objective" analysis and conclusion.
Of course if you have any real scientific "non-crock-pot" proof then by all means share it. I won't be holding my breath. shafique I'm just watching the video on google linked above - first time I'm watching it. It does raise interesting points about the crash into the Pentagon - no engines found and no impact of engines seen on the building, for example. The presence of 2 planes above the Pentagon just after the explosions raises interesting questions too. As for the collapse of the buildings.. they do quote from a paper provided by the suppliers of the steel used for the buildings saying that the steel would not melt even at 2000F, but at close to 3000F. The various reports of multiple explosions are interesting as well. The documentary shows clips of the news items as they were shown live - reporting the explosions etc. I tend not to believe in consipiracies until I see evidence that convinces me that the obvious didn't happen. I've dismissed all consipiracy claims about 9/11 before (we have a number of people in the office who are adamant it was all a conspiracy). Now I can see what the fuss was all about concerning the pentagon crash. I recommend people do watch the video on google video, it's very good quality and raises interesting issues. (One point I've always been skeptical about was the 'fact' that one of the hijacker's passport was found in the wreckage of the WTC the next day - and yet the flight recorders were 'destroyed'... the odds of this happening are mind-boggling.. a paper passport surviving a crash, fireball that collapsed a building...hmmm?) For the sake of balance, I'll also try and get a copy of the PBS video to watch about the collapse of the buildings. Incidentally, after I posted the questions - I went to Wikipaedia and read up on 9/11 etc. I had forgotten that Bin Laden initially emphatically denied any involvement in the events of 9/11 and only much later took credit for them. Also, Dubai even gets a mention in the documentary - apparently Bin Laden was in the American Hospital in mid-2001 receiving treatment and was visited by a member of the CIA. I'm not seeking to change anyone's minds - but I may end up modifying some of my views. I always tell people that I'm amazed that the actions of less than 50 people can have such impact. But now I'm wondering whether it was only 50 odd people? Cheers, Shafique Concord
UAE75,
I think its going fine. Curiously you did not share your perspective on Shaf's points but went on a tangent! Lets hear it. shafique UAE - I would hardly call the documentary unbiased. There are many anti-Government groups in the States - and many conspiracies (faked moon landings, jfk assassination etc) However, I sometimes think it is worth hearing them out and then hearing the answers from the other side. Still not convinced that airlines weren't hijacked and crashed into the WTC and that this alone caused the collapse. However, now am not so sure about the pentagon crash.. Hmmm Cheers Shafique uae75 Concord, Well i can answer the last 3 questions, cuz the first two didnt make any sense to answer. 3. Well alot died in this incident, i would suspect between 1000-2000. 4. The world has changed big time, people are becoming more cautious about security, racial profiling is something normal. 5. It sure did increase the attacks, and i doubt if anyone can say otherwise. Concord
Nice "duck"! uae75
:wink: rudeboy i just wanna say that after the september 11 cnn and other media especially in England dont know about usa werent there were talking alot about Mohammed Atta and other guys who were on the aeroplane that collided into WTC.... Did they find the passports of these terrorits from the WTC scene? well i think they did otherwise how else would they know who these guys were and which country they were from. funny thing is that the american authorities were able to find their passports after the aeroplanes collided into the Trade Centre and then when the Trade centre fell to the ground lol and they were still able to piece the torn and burnt pages of the Passport but they were never able to find the BLACK BOX which was in the Titanium the strongest metal... but in america i guess a paper has more chances of buring and then falling from sky then a metal like titanium has lol hahahha does anyone know whether osama bin ladien is not a FBI agent lol for all we know he could be sitting in the white house or having it off with bushes wife lol another thing anyone heard of remote control aeroplanes lol yeh the tiny small ones which in todays technology means boeing 777 to fly around without the need of a pilot. does anyone know whether al qaeda exists or not does anyone know whether its not a American CIA or FBI agency which the President doesnt know about lol come on there are agencies which bush doesnt know they exist like area 77 i wonder if bush knows about terrorits from MARS lol i could keep on going but just wanna say that after september 11 there have been 2 wars 1 in afghanistan to find osma did they find him NO 2nd war was in Iraq cos of Weapons of Mass destruction did they find that LOL HELL NO but yeh they did find sadam hmmm i guess they couldnt find weapons of mass destruction so y not cover it up by looking for sadam. hey look world we didnt find weapons of mass destruction but we found sadam lol is funny how they found sadam and not osama.... lol wots the difference between sadam and osama nothing both of they havve money they could have gone whereever they wanted to.... its realy funny how after 5 years they still cant find osama even when usa has the telescope which allows it to zoom into parts of the world. or maybe usa doesnt want to find osama yet maybe they want him to do something else something else after 5 years :p who knows maybe the guy could be dead for all i know is that we will keep on believeing wot CNN and western media will say. if they say there r bombs in iran then the muslim league will sit on their asses like they did when Usa attacked iraq cos it had weapons and do nothing... lol we muslims are at fault its our goverments who are at fault... we are too buzy getting reach that we dont care any more about our religion or our beliefs.... we have one thing that america wants OIL that is running out wot is next on the table NAtural Gas WHO has it funny thing is IRAN, Pakistan AND India have it. America will attack iran and start a war between pakistan and india which it has been doing so .. lol i know its funny you wont believe me i guess time will tell :p shafique rudeboy - your posts are difficult to read. Try using punctuation and paragraphs. Cheers, Shafique sniper420
it's for ppl like U who stop reasoning and free speech.... now if i stated another theory i become terrorist sympathizer!!!!!!!! holly kamolly... i havent yet seen the nova doc but seen other doc which is based on arnie's assumsion force destabilised building and it crashed.......heheeh u must be kidding moi yeah the layer were removed fromm the site were it was crashed but not under 50 m from the hit spot! the building was made to resist even earth quakes! If u say destabilising was the case then it would NEVER I repeat NEVER fall at free fall speed...yeah me and my buddies are more competent thanu think conc.....graduated form one of the best eng skools with dist. I am not providing the math cos many of u will yawn. those structural engineers involved in doc i am pretty sure they are afraid to speak out cos of losing their jobs and other repercussions.
another food 4 thought.......how did the hijackers overpower the pilots? there should have been some distress msgs ......oh please they no way had anyguns and the ipilot control room is access locked. U mean human shield? well they could have ample time to send distress msgs......when they found blackboxes the cia said 'nothing relevant' was found!
well those who are against conspiracy therories in this forum dont have any reasoning powere . otehr than arnie i didnt see conc or kanelli providing any reasoning!!!! All were like oh u are with those islamists......ah why would govn do that?
I am pretty sure govenment wasnt directly involved but intelligence groups who do anything inthe name of security and after 911 have gained too much power.
and concord for Lord's sakes my nick isnt snikes or spikes and stop whining. sniper420
is this what u have kanelli .......call ppl islamic fudamentalists? u didnt even provide any logical science or reasoning in this WHOLE thread...whole time u were like you are traitor.......u shouldbe ashamed and other crap. U wont knoe gazillions of advantages certain ppl have in carrying out the plot. World trade center did have records of illegal financial dealings which were all lost, german firm found many illegal transactions were committed b4 wtc collapse. the CIA and other rich elite did gain loads of advantages in doing this. Ofcourse u wont even research cosin ur heart u believe all the govenment officials are there to protect citizens . read the declassified docs of intelligence u will find 80% of the offence as inhumane and unnecessary . there are so many things intelligence is hiding like CTV videos of pentagon crash which were confiscated by FBI and never released........yeah modifiedversions were released. the intelligence are most repressive groups of any gov which save from any repercussions. I feel ashamed to call u a canadian to bash ppl to beleive in something u dont......u must b ashamed of urself
yeah go threathen me , pm admin or call me a troll...i stand by my claims. rudeboy can someone tell me wot is a terrorist? someone who is fighting for his country is he a freedom fighter or a terrorist? if someone blows himself to make a statement saying "please leave our country and we will keep on fighting against you till the day you leave" are they called terrorist or freedom fighters? bushra21 rudeboy...you seem to have a lot to say of how lazy muslims are.... so tell me exactly - what have you done to help out your brothers and sisters? did you go and fight in iraq, afghanistan, palestine, lebanon...are you willing to go and fight in iran, if and when a war takes place? rudeboy you asking me to do a jihaad :p there are ways of doing jihaad. you can go and fight against an enemy. no i m not going to go and fight against america but i m going to use my wealth my knowledge against US. i know you will think its funny but i have boycotted from using products to do anything to do with america... no more pepsi coke no more junk foods.. i know i m just one person and what will i make a difference to american economies. but what will be the difference between US and me if i went to war... hmm nothing we both will become murderers. yeh i do have a lot on my mind especially how i m frustrated to see how the west treats Muslims and i m even more frustrated to see how muslims have a divide amongst each other. i m frustrated but that doesnt mean that i will go and blow myself suicide is forbidden in Islam because Islam promotes peace yeh if your Religion, Country or Home , Family is attacked upon then thats when you do Jihaad. and individuals like me and you shouldnt be doing jihaad our governments our leaders are the ones who should be fighting for us. rudeboy you asking me to do a jihaad :p there are ways of doing jihaad. you can go and fight against an enemy. no i m not going to go and fight against america but i m going to use my wealth my knowledge against US. i know you will think its funny but i have boycotted from using products to do anything to do with america... no more pepsi coke no more junk foods.. i know i m just one person and what will i make a difference to american economies. but what will be the difference between US and me if i went to war... hmm nothing we both will become murderers. yeh i do have a lot on my mind especially how i m frustrated to see how the west treats Muslims and i m even more frustrated to see how muslims have a divide amongst each other. i m frustrated but that doesnt mean that i will go and blow myself suicide is forbidden in Islam because Islam promotes peace yeh if your Religion, Country or Home , Family is attacked upon then thats when you do Jihaad. and individuals like me and you shouldnt be doing jihaad our governments our leaders are the ones who should be fighting for us. bushra i am boycotting the use of american products thats my jihaad... i know you will find it funny and think wot difference would one person make to american economy. but have you thought that i might become an example to someone on dubaiforums reading this right now who might like my idea and end up doing the same thing and who knows slowly slowly the numbers will pick up. you have tried fighting against them you have tried talking with them y not do what i m doing... will it hurt you to give up coke hmmm there are other subsitute products like water hmm not so sweet :p there are juices available out there. y eat macdonnalds try a dish from other parts of the world. try arabic try asian try pakistani or indian dish lol or so called curry who knows you might end up liking it.... am not going to force you to follow me i m just telling you what my "jihaad" is just wanna say that OUR prophet PBUH was an example for the rest of us and thats y islam spred and still is spreading. so y not do what i m doing, become an example for your friends your families eventually your friends families and their friends and so on would end up doing what you are doing..... try it :P kanelli
What the hell are you rambling on about? Have you been drinking or something? bushra21
i never asked you to blow yourself up. i just got sick of you complaining about how the muslims countries are doing nothing and all you were doing is sitting and typing on a computer about how you are dis gusted with them. people have been doing this 'boycotting' that you are saying you do for quite some time now....has it been working? you need to take more action. if you really are so concerned about your other musilm brothers and sisters, get off your lazy bumm and fight with them. side by side, hand in hand. because lets face it, this boycotting system you have going on....its not going to work. kanelli Why don't you guys try working with Muslim political lobby groups in the US or elsewhere where the people can influence the government. Those lobby groups seem to be successful for other lobby groups. Also, what about helping with education about religious tolerance and making people more critical about the propaganda coming from all directions? How about choosing to work with Palestinian and Israeli groups that are also looking for a peaceful solution to the Arab-Israeli conflict. Those are all political and peaceful ways to fight the injustices. There is no need to consider violent measures, as that should be an absolute last resort. bushra21
yes yes, your a very right...violence should be taken as a last resort.
ive just been all for fighting these past couple days.... :twisted:
shame on me. lol sniper420
yeah yeah kanelli it's so easy to put these in words.......how long did it take Jews to finally get recognized by Europeans.....they were discriminated over 2 centuries so they specialized on some jobs ........after holocaust they ran away from europe cam eto america and used their skills to establish business then gain political support. yeah most of the muslim countries i know indonesia, bangladesh, and muslims in india promote tolerance mainly sufism exists there. yeah palestinain arabs started suicide bombing after 35 yrs of silence of extermination....that doesnt mean i support their ways but they were frustrated. Internatinal communities copoetely ignored em until Munich massacre.
yeah yeah it's easy to dictate terms......how many years did it take Americans to really implement "all are born equal" in american declaration of independence? just in 60's there were segregated seats and just a year the katrina thing. I guess there is a lot of bias inside our government (West) and still think we are better than them (white man's burden) at the sametime governments in muslim countries are weak corrupted , squandering their wealth, bereaucratic and authoritarian. Lionheart Why was my post deleted???



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