Right, the times square bomber had no connection to Islam.
He just had connections to Islamist terror groups.
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Times Square Bomber - Why?
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- event horizon
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The Times Square Bombing was in retaliation for the US bombing Pakistanis - I'm glad you're eventually catching on.
I presume you're not going to argue that the bombings of Pakistanis was a religious war - so why would the retaliation be anything to do with religion?
The group killing Pakistanis happens to be predominantly non-Muslim (but there are Muslims in the US military), and the Pakistanis fighting back happen to be predominantly Muslim.
But, as Ron Paul - your countryman - puts it:
“They don’t come here to attack us because we are rich and we’re free. They come and they attack us because we’re over there [attacking them].”
As the author nicely put it:
The motivations are largely political, not religious, in nature. Our country has attacked theirs and killed their countrymen.
The bewilderment of some Americans–”why are there so many Muslim terrorists!?”–is mostly a reflection of a deep ignorance of what our government does abroad.
Your protestations continue to make me chuckle. Just because you believe something to be true, doesn't change the facts, young man.
Cheers,
Shafique
I presume you're not going to argue that the bombings of Pakistanis was a religious war - so why would the retaliation be anything to do with religion?
The group killing Pakistanis happens to be predominantly non-Muslim (but there are Muslims in the US military), and the Pakistanis fighting back happen to be predominantly Muslim.
But, as Ron Paul - your countryman - puts it:
“They don’t come here to attack us because we are rich and we’re free. They come and they attack us because we’re over there [attacking them].”
As the author nicely put it:
The motivations are largely political, not religious, in nature. Our country has attacked theirs and killed their countrymen.
The bewilderment of some Americans–”why are there so many Muslim terrorists!?”–is mostly a reflection of a deep ignorance of what our government does abroad.
Your protestations continue to make me chuckle. Just because you believe something to be true, doesn't change the facts, young man.
Cheers,
Shafique
- shafique
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Hey, you first claimed that the Times Square bombing was in retaliation for the killing of Pakistani civilians, yet your own article has the bomber saying he was motivated by the deaths of Taliban leaders.
So, your own article contradicts what you have previously said.
Did you actually read your own article?
Beyond that, I can't see how someone can claim that a guy who traveled to Pakistan to train at an Islamist terror camp was not motivated by Islam.
I really don't think I need to argue this point with you, because I seriously doubt any one else reading this thread agrees with you.
So, your own article contradicts what you have previously said.
Did you actually read your own article?
Beyond that, I can't see how someone can claim that a guy who traveled to Pakistan to train at an Islamist terror camp was not motivated by Islam.
I really don't think I need to argue this point with you, because I seriously doubt any one else reading this thread agrees with you.
- event horizon
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Ha ha. Nice one.
The article says the retaliation is over the killing of Pakistanis by drones. Even your soldiers agree that they have killed civilians, and lawyers in your country doubt the legality of the killings.
It is moot whether the retaliation is over the killing of Pakistani fighters or Pakistani civilians - the point is that the retaliation is over the killings, not over religous differences.
Thanks for shooting yourself in the foot.
I suspect you'll cry foul and insist that it is about religion after all.. but hey, far be it from me to stop you digging a hole - carry on!
Cheers,
Shafique
-- Sat May 15, 2010 12:33 am --
And indeed, this other point is also pertinent:
He was on to something there, wasn't he 'eh'?
The article says the retaliation is over the killing of Pakistanis by drones. Even your soldiers agree that they have killed civilians, and lawyers in your country doubt the legality of the killings.
It is moot whether the retaliation is over the killing of Pakistani fighters or Pakistani civilians - the point is that the retaliation is over the killings, not over religous differences.
Thanks for shooting yourself in the foot.
I suspect you'll cry foul and insist that it is about religion after all.. but hey, far be it from me to stop you digging a hole - carry on!
Cheers,
Shafique
-- Sat May 15, 2010 12:33 am --
And indeed, this other point is also pertinent:
Of course, there will be a concerted effort to downplay the fact that hundreds of Pakistani civilians have been killed in these drone attacks, or that the drone attacks are illegal under international law.
He was on to something there, wasn't he 'eh'?
- shafique
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The article says the retaliation is over the killing of Pakistanis by drones. Even your soldiers agree that they have killed civilians, and lawyers in your country doubt the legality of the killings.
Uhm, the article was an opinion piece.
The actual quote from the bomber says that he carried out the bombing because of the assassinations of Taliban leaders.
Interesting how your spin is contradicted by reality.
Now, did you actually read the article in full or were deliberately distorting the truth, just as the author did?
-- Sat May 15, 2010 10:07 am --
According to the New York Post, Mr Shahzad witnessed the drone attacks during eight months he recently spent in Pakistan and has told prosecutors that his bomb attempt was supposed to be revenge for the drones’ killing of Taliban leaders.
Seems clear to me.
Shahzad was already in Pakistan training at an Islamist terror camp before he saw the drone attacks and was motivated to take revenge for the killing of Taliban leaders.
But really, just because Mr Shahzad was at a Pakistani terror camp run by the Taliban, that doesn't mean that this bombing and Shahzad's radicalization had anything to do with Islam, right?
- event horizon
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Pot, kettle, black..
What facts did the article get wrong?
The Pakistan Taliban said they'd retaliate for US bombings - and followed through. They didn't say they'd bomb the US because they hate Christians/Non-Muslims etc - so just 'imagining' or 'believing' the retaliation is about religion says more about your beliefs rather than the facts on the ground.
(And yes, I read the article - it clearly states and gives evidence for the fact that the attempted attacks were not about religion but retaliation for US bombings in Pakistan)
Cheers,
Shafique
What facts did the article get wrong?
The Pakistan Taliban said they'd retaliate for US bombings - and followed through. They didn't say they'd bomb the US because they hate Christians/Non-Muslims etc - so just 'imagining' or 'believing' the retaliation is about religion says more about your beliefs rather than the facts on the ground.
(And yes, I read the article - it clearly states and gives evidence for the fact that the attempted attacks were not about religion but retaliation for US bombings in Pakistan)
Cheers,
Shafique
- shafique
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What facts did the article get wrong?
You mean, which facts did the article do the most spinning to?
How about the one I pointed out above?
According to Mr Shahzad's own *admission*, he targeted Times Square as revenge for the killings of Taliban leaders - after he was already attending an Islamist terror camp.
Funny how the author from the rag you quoted from dismisses Shahzad's own statement. The facts aren't important.
When reality doesn't gel with nutters, such as the author of your 'piece' and Chomsky, it needs to be tweaked, ignored or 'corrected' ever so often
- event horizon
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event horizon wrote:According to Mr Shahzad's own *admission*, he targeted Times Square as revenge for the killings of Taliban leaders
So, nothing to with religion then. QED.
(or are you saying that killing of the Pakistanis by the US was religiously motivated? They didn't attack the vatican, for example, - but rather attacked the country which was killing Pakistanis.)
Cheers,
Shafique
- shafique
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LoL. The article said the man was already attending an Islamist terror camp when he witnessed a drone attack against a Taliban leader.
You're not actually ignoring the big elephant in the room about why Shahzad was at a Taliban training camp...???
Oh, you are.
You're not actually ignoring the big elephant in the room about why Shahzad was at a Taliban training camp...???
Oh, you are.
- event horizon
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Why was he in Pakistan training to go back to the US and attack US citizens is indeed the crux of the matter - the reason is the bombings of Pakistanis by the US. QED
It just appears that your cherished fantasy that all Muslims hate non-Muslims is blinding you from actually reading what is written.
In fact, you've even quoted the article saying the attack was in retaliation for killings! Duh?
Cheers,
Shafique
It just appears that your cherished fantasy that all Muslims hate non-Muslims is blinding you from actually reading what is written.
In fact, you've even quoted the article saying the attack was in retaliation for killings! Duh?
Cheers,
Shafique
- shafique
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The article says that he witnessed the drone attacks while in Pakistan. It never clarified whether Shahzad was motivated to train at an Islamist terror camp because of the drone attacks.
Regardless, I have to wonder how someone could come to the conclusion that Islam had absolutely nothing to do with the attack when it is clear that Mr Shahzad is a Muslim fundamentalist who subscribes to jihadist ideology.
Regardless, I have to wonder how someone could come to the conclusion that Islam had absolutely nothing to do with the attack when it is clear that Mr Shahzad is a Muslim fundamentalist who subscribes to jihadist ideology.
- event horizon
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You are referring to the article entitled:
"Times Square bombing in retaliation for U.S. drone attacks, No connection to Islam"
aren't you?
Hmm.
"Times Square bombing in retaliation for U.S. drone attacks, No connection to Islam"
aren't you?
Hmm.
- shafique
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Faisal Shahzad, a Pakistani-born US citizen has told interrogators that he been inspired to take up the cause of al Qaeda and radical Islam by the internet messages of Anwar Al-Awlaki, a Yemen-based imam.
Awlaki, who was born in America, was accused of grooming Nidal Hasan in a series of emails before the US soldier opened fire at the Texas military base last year.
nothing to do with Islam, move along
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldne ... acher.html
- event horizon
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Nice attempt at guilt by association.
The reason he gave for trying to emulate Timothy McVeigh (who was a successful American terrorist) was not 'radical Islam' but the bombing of Pakistan by the US.
Like McVeigh, he had his reasons for wanting to blow up his fellow Americans - and like McVeigh it was not because of a book of scripture.
These guys, your fellow countrymen - however, did indeed want to blow up you and your fellow Americans because of their religious book - the Bible:
Nine alleged members of a radical US Christian militia group accused of plotting to wage war against the US have been freed from jail on bond.
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/americas/8658604.stm
The reason he gave for trying to emulate Timothy McVeigh (who was a successful American terrorist) was not 'radical Islam' but the bombing of Pakistan by the US.
Like McVeigh, he had his reasons for wanting to blow up his fellow Americans - and like McVeigh it was not because of a book of scripture.
These guys, your fellow countrymen - however, did indeed want to blow up you and your fellow Americans because of their religious book - the Bible:
Nine alleged members of a radical US Christian militia group accused of plotting to wage war against the US have been freed from jail on bond.
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/americas/8658604.stm
- shafique
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It's amazing that you ignore Shahzad's own statements to perpetuate your own version of reality.
We have a statement from Mr Shahzad saying he wanted to take up the cause of al-Qaeda and radical Islam.
Seems pretty clear to me.
Mr Shahzad was a radical Muslim who traveled to Pakistan to receive training and spiritual guidance at an Islamist terror camp and has explicitly told authorities that he is influenced by al-Qaeda and the sermons of Islamist preacher Anwar Al-Awlaki.
The facts be damned.
We have a statement from Mr Shahzad saying he wanted to take up the cause of al-Qaeda and radical Islam.
Seems pretty clear to me.
Mr Shahzad was a radical Muslim who traveled to Pakistan to receive training and spiritual guidance at an Islamist terror camp and has explicitly told authorities that he is influenced by al-Qaeda and the sermons of Islamist preacher Anwar Al-Awlaki.
The facts be damned.
- event horizon
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event horizon wrote:It's amazing that you ignore Shahzad's own statements to perpetuate your own version of reality.
We have a statement from Mr Shahzad saying he wanted to take up the cause of al-Qaeda and radical Islam.
But that is still a far cry from your belief that the reason he wanted to emulate Tim McVeigh was religion.
He says he did it because Pakistan was bombed by the US. So, like Tim McVeigh - he had a gripe against his fellow Americans and wanted to explode a car bomb.
Now, had he flown a plane into a government building like the Catholic American guy a few months ago, then there would be an argument that he may have done that for 72 virgins.. (btw, what does Catholicism say happens to martyrs??) - but instead he failed to emulate Tim McVeigh.
He should have obviously spent more time in the US and learnt how to make car bombs than travelling to the 'Jihadist' training camp! Thank God he got his training there rather than travelling to the South of the USA!
Cheers,
Shafique
- shafique
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Yeah, I'll take that into consideration if you can find e-mails of the anti-gubmint guy ranting and raving about taking up the cause for Christianity (and attending a Christian terror camp after recently becoming more religious).
Oh yeah, he was an anarcho-libertarian and may have been agnostic or atheist by the time of his kamikaze attack.
Oh yeah, he was an anarcho-libertarian and may have been agnostic or atheist by the time of his kamikaze attack.
- event horizon
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If he was an anarcho terrorist, he would have had better training. As I said, thank God he didn't go for training in the Bible belt - they know how to blow things up there!
I can only imagine he was a gullible Yank and thought he was going for a proper training course and was sold a pup in Waziristan - can you imagine, 'my brother, you must blow up the infidels - God tells you do to this - use a SUV and stuff it with stuff that won't explode - don't do what the guys here do and successfully create bombs'.
Imagine how stupid the guys at the Jihad training camp must feel when their protege says that he was trying to kill people because of US drones bombing of Pakistan and not because of the bloodlust that good Muslims must show against non-Muslims! As I said, the Bible belt camps in the woods would have taught him better and he would have been on message - like the Hutaree who are clear they want to kill US policemen because of Biblical descriptions of the appocalypse.
You Americans know how to create nutters - I gotta hand it to you!
I mean, a Catholic suicide bomber whose beef is over taxes!! Wow.
Cheers,
Shafique
I can only imagine he was a gullible Yank and thought he was going for a proper training course and was sold a pup in Waziristan - can you imagine, 'my brother, you must blow up the infidels - God tells you do to this - use a SUV and stuff it with stuff that won't explode - don't do what the guys here do and successfully create bombs'.
Imagine how stupid the guys at the Jihad training camp must feel when their protege says that he was trying to kill people because of US drones bombing of Pakistan and not because of the bloodlust that good Muslims must show against non-Muslims! As I said, the Bible belt camps in the woods would have taught him better and he would have been on message - like the Hutaree who are clear they want to kill US policemen because of Biblical descriptions of the appocalypse.
You Americans know how to create nutters - I gotta hand it to you!
I mean, a Catholic suicide bomber whose beef is over taxes!! Wow.
Cheers,
Shafique
- shafique
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I don't know if stupid is the right word to describe the Islamists in Pakistan.
I mean, they have managed to successfully convince self-loathing Westerners into believing Mr Shahzad wasn't a religious fanatic whose own statements make it very clear he wanted to take up the cause of al-Qaeda and radical Islam.
But, as I asked previously, how many non-Muslim fanatics go off to spend eight months at an Islamist terror camp in Pakistan?
Contrary to your belief, propane tanks actually do explode. And with someone who's looking for a quick Jihad attack and without access to explosives like the kind of stuff that is apparently in abundance in other parts of the world, what exactly did you expect him to use in a post Oklahoma city/9/11 America?
LoL.
As for Bible-belt, blah blah blah blah blah, Michigan isn't exactly in the Bible-belt.
Don't you know your American geography, oh wise one?
I mean, they have managed to successfully convince self-loathing Westerners into believing Mr Shahzad wasn't a religious fanatic whose own statements make it very clear he wanted to take up the cause of al-Qaeda and radical Islam.
But, as I asked previously, how many non-Muslim fanatics go off to spend eight months at an Islamist terror camp in Pakistan?
use a SUV and stuff it with stuff that won't explode
Contrary to your belief, propane tanks actually do explode. And with someone who's looking for a quick Jihad attack and without access to explosives like the kind of stuff that is apparently in abundance in other parts of the world, what exactly did you expect him to use in a post Oklahoma city/9/11 America?
LoL.
As for Bible-belt, blah blah blah blah blah, Michigan isn't exactly in the Bible-belt.
Don't you know your American geography, oh wise one?
- event horizon
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I thought that the Catholic suicide bomber was from Texas and the mosque bombing was in Florida. I thought they were both in the Bible Belt?
McVeigh was also in the Bible Belt, wasn't he - Oklahoma IIRC - hence the refs to go down and get training there.
Michigan - that's where there are Muslims and MoTown - Dearborn and Detroit - right? Sorry, I've only visited the US - never stayed there. Edit - Ahh, I see now - the Hutaree Christian terrorists are from Michigan too - you're right, Shazad could have just travelled to them there woods for training. My bad.
How did my Geographical knowledge pan out, oh wise one?
(BTW, you may want to check out the Hamas TV thread - we're trying to get to the bottom of this 'he went to Waziristan and all he brought back was this t-shirt with 'make a bomb' on it' )
Cheers,
Shafique
McVeigh was also in the Bible Belt, wasn't he - Oklahoma IIRC - hence the refs to go down and get training there.
Michigan - that's where there are Muslims and MoTown - Dearborn and Detroit - right? Sorry, I've only visited the US - never stayed there. Edit - Ahh, I see now - the Hutaree Christian terrorists are from Michigan too - you're right, Shazad could have just travelled to them there woods for training. My bad.
How did my Geographical knowledge pan out, oh wise one?
(BTW, you may want to check out the Hamas TV thread - we're trying to get to the bottom of this 'he went to Waziristan and all he brought back was this t-shirt with 'make a bomb' on it'
)Cheers,
Shafique
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event horizon wrote:Faisal Shahzad, a Pakistani-born US citizen has told interrogators that he been inspired to take up the cause of al Qaeda and radical Islam by the internet messages of Anwar Al-Awlaki, a Yemen-based imam.
Awlaki, who was born in America, was accused of grooming Nidal Hasan in a series of emails before the US soldier opened fire at the Texas military base last year.
nothing to do with Islam, move along
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldne ... acher.html
If this isn't enough evidence by Shahzad's own admission, then what is Shafique?
Mr Shahzad has made wide-ranging admissions to interrogators since his arrest on Tuesday. The former financial analyst has said that he travelled to Taliban training camps in North Wazirstan, where he received training in bomb making. While there he met with Hakimullah Mehsud, the leader of Pakistan's Taliban, whose death in a drone strike he was attempting to revenge by driving the car loaded with homemade explosives to America's most famous square.
Mr Shahzad also admitted that he had met with member of Lashkar-e-Taiba, a separate group responsible for the attacks on the Indian city of Mumbai in 2008
Associations with terrorist factions. Sniff sniff... Lashkar-e Taiba, Yemeni cleric (religious odour anyone?)
-- 24 May 2010, 22:47 --
shafique wrote:event horizon wrote:According to Mr Shahzad's own *admission*, he targeted Times Square as revenge for the killings of Taliban leaders
So, nothing to with religion then. QED.
(or are you saying that killing of the Pakistanis by the US was religiously motivated? They didn't attack the vatican, for example, - but rather attacked the country which was killing Pakistanis.)
Cheers,
Shafique
Nothing with religion?...Revenge for killing Taliban leaders.
Lets analyze this somewhat more:
The taliban is islamic conservative (Middle Age conservative). Shahzad doesn't like them to be killed by the Americans. What does that say about his motivation?
1. Simple hate for America, the land that gave him an opportunity and citizen status. Shafique's defense.
2. The possibility that Shahzad actually liked the conservative rule of the Taliban in his homeland Pakistan.
3. He was forced to do terrorist acts for militia's, before being allowed/accepted back with his parents in Pakistan.
The 2nd would imply him being religiously inclined, to say the least. Do you agree with this soft conclusion?
The 3rd would imply that he didn't have much options other than obey the militia that operates with a daily prayer to Allah.
All plausible motivations.
-- 24 May 2010, 23:20 --
shafique wrote:If he was an anarcho terrorist, he would have had better training. As I said, thank God he didn't go for training in the Bible belt - they know how to blow things up there!
I can only imagine he was a gullible Yank and thought he was going for a proper training course and was sold a pup in Waziristan - can you imagine, 'my brother, you must blow up the infidels - God tells you do to this - use a SUV and stuff it with stuff that won't explode - don't do what the guys here do and successfully create bombs'.
Imagine how stupid the guys at the Jihad training camp must feel when their protege says that he was trying to kill people because of US drones bombing of Pakistan and not because of the bloodlust that good Muslims must show against non-Muslims! As I said, the Bible belt camps in the woods would have taught him better and he would have been on message - like the Hutaree who are clear they want to kill US policemen because of Biblical descriptions of the appocalypse.
You Americans know how to create nutters - I gotta hand it to you!
I mean, a Catholic suicide bomber whose beef is over taxes!! Wow.
Cheers,
Shafique
How do you explain the following, Shafique?
Lets consider Joseph Stack's own letter directed to the world, which indicates he didn't care about religion one bit, other than his inherited roots.
...Some friends introduced me to a group of people who were having ‘tax code’ readings and discussions. In particular, zeroed in on a section relating to the wonderful "exemptions" that make institutions like the vulgar, corrupt Catholic Church so incredibly wealthy. We carefully studied the law (with the help of some of the “best”, high-paid, experienced tax lawyers in the business), and then began to do exactly what the "big boys" were doing (except that we weren’t steeling from our congregation or lying to the government about our massive profits in the name of God). We took a great deal of care to make it all visible, following all of the rules, exactly the way the law said it was to be done.
His distaste about the Catholic Church is quite obvious. He didn't care a bit for it. It was all about the IRS and the US government, stealing the fruits of his own labour by high taxes during his lifetime, that ruined him several times.
Stack’s diary takes aim at the IRS, outraged at loopholes that benefit large corporations and the Catholic Church, but not average Americans. He claimed that the IRS cost him "$40,000+, 10 years of my life, and set my retirement plans back to 0."
Like EH said, he was a libertarian. He happens to have the same ideas about taxes as I have. Governments in the Western world are out of control. Size is huge, and so are tax collections. Point is that religion wasn't involved in his decision making. The IRS was.
Shahzad has way more relation with religion, since he admitted in his testimony that he had contact with religiously motivated terrorist cleric/factions that have relation to the Mumbai bombings etc.
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Perhaps you are right and he was indeed telling porkies when he said the failed bombing was in retaliation for US bombing.
(BTW - you do realise that the first quote you give above from the Telegraph says the guy read some posts on the internet, and the next paragraph says the same preacher allegedly coached the soldier who shot up his base. Hmm - let's hope no one sneezes and blows away this 'evidence' )
I also agree that the Catholic Suicide Bomber in the US this year committed his act of terrorism because he hated the government. But there's no denying that he was at a Catholic orphanage and would have had the Bible read to him. And he comes from the Bible belt.
Oh, wait a minute - whose arguing that terrorists aren't automatically motivated by religion... ?
Aren't I arguing that the successful suicide bomber who was Catholic also committed his terrorist act for reasons other than religion? (And aren't I saying that there is as 'strong' a case for him being motivated by his Bible study classes.. but in that case, we DO take his word for the reasons why he committed the suicide bombing. Hmmm. If only there was a thread that talked about double standards... )
Cheers,
Shafique
(BTW - you do realise that the first quote you give above from the Telegraph says the guy read some posts on the internet, and the next paragraph says the same preacher allegedly coached the soldier who shot up his base. Hmm - let's hope no one sneezes and blows away this 'evidence'
)I also agree that the Catholic Suicide Bomber in the US this year committed his act of terrorism because he hated the government. But there's no denying that he was at a Catholic orphanage and would have had the Bible read to him. And he comes from the Bible belt.
Oh, wait a minute - whose arguing that terrorists aren't automatically motivated by religion... ?
Aren't I arguing that the successful suicide bomber who was Catholic also committed his terrorist act for reasons other than religion? (And aren't I saying that there is as 'strong' a case for him being motivated by his Bible study classes.. but in that case, we DO take his word for the reasons why he committed the suicide bombing. Hmmm. If only there was a thread that talked about double standards...
)Cheers,
Shafique
- shafique
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Ok, as stated in the other thread, we have a lot of 'opinions' floating around.
Here's what the Taliban themselves have to say about our young American terrorist:
Hmm.
http://www.france24.com/en/20100506-pak ... mb-suspect
However, that was on 7th May. Perhaps new evidence has now emerged?
Cheers,
Shafique
Here's what the Taliban themselves have to say about our young American terrorist:
"I deny this claim that Taliban were involved in this incident. This is a propaganda against us. If we are involved in something, we admit it."
Hmm.
Pakistan's Taliban said on Thursday it neither trained nor recruited the alleged New York bomb plotter, further confusing inquiries into possible links between the suspect and militant cells.
...
"So far no concrete evidence has yet linked him to any group in Pakistan," a senior security official told AFP on condition of anonymity.
The Pakistani military, which has won praise in the United States for a series of assaults on the Taliban, warned that it has yet to establish a link between the suspect and Waziristan.
http://www.france24.com/en/20100506-pak ... mb-suspect
However, that was on 7th May. Perhaps new evidence has now emerged?
Cheers,
Shafique
- shafique
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shafique wrote:Perhaps you are right and he was indeed telling porkies when he said the failed bombing was in retaliation for US bombing.
Of course he did. The guy is shit scared that he gets tortured by US officials.
(BTW - you do realise that the first quote you give above from the Telegraph says the guy read some posts on the internet, and the next paragraph says the same preacher allegedly coached the soldier who shot up his base. Hmm - let's hope no one sneezes and blows away this 'evidence'
We deal with the information we receive. He read internet preachings of the Yemeni imam/cleric and that fella did inspire alot of harm in the world already. You can't defend this Shafique. Keep trying though. Please keep some of your reputation left standing will ya?
I also agree that the Catholic Suicide Bomber in the US this year committed his act of terrorism because he hated the government. But there's no denying that he was at a Catholic orphanage and would have had the Bible read to him. And he comes from the Bible belt.
Oh, wait a minute - whose arguing that terrorists aren't automatically motivated by religion... ?
Good point. You can pass START now and collect one virgin for your pleasure. No nine-year olds Shaffy.
Aren't I arguing that the successful suicide bomber who was Catholic also committed his terrorist act for reasons other than religion? (And aren't I saying that there is as 'strong' a case for him being motivated by his Bible study classes.. but in that case, we DO take his word for the reasons why he committed the suicide bombing. Hmmm. If only there was a thread that talked about double standards...
Cheers,
Shafique
You can say alot about double standards, but this guy seems to be inspired by religiously motivated terrorists. They helped him prepare his act. Thats a fact.
His motivation might not be religiously dominated, he does have the glare of religion over him. Are there any people in that region who don't have the implicit backing of the holy works of Allah?
Thank you.
- RobbyG
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BTW - I watched a movie last night - 'Unthinkable' - Samuel L Jackson in it along with Michael Sheen (the guy who played Blair in the Queen, and David Frost in 'Frost/Nixon')
Recommended - and appropriate to this thread's subject matter (I quickly add in case Mel wanders by)
http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0914863/
Cheers,
Shafique
Recommended - and appropriate to this thread's subject matter (I quickly add in case Mel wanders by)
http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0914863/
Cheers,
Shafique
- shafique
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You need a vacation Shaffy. Can I recommend Pakistan for you? I heard North Waziristan had great workshops...
Go take a look and tell us about the unthinkable, when you get back, if ever...
Go take a look and tell us about the unthinkable, when you get back, if ever...
- RobbyG
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Great idea.
I hear they have great 'activities' for holiday makers there!
Recent snap from TripAdvisor :
Cheers,
Shafique
I hear they have great 'activities' for holiday makers there!
Recent snap from TripAdvisor
:Cheers,
Shafique
- shafique
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Well, you probably go up in the smoke.
I don't have a beard.
I don't have a beard.
- RobbyG
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Oh, wait a minute - whose arguing that terrorists aren't automatically motivated by religion... ?
Let me know when that 'Catholic' suicide bomber spends a few months at a Christian terror camp, is inspired by a militant Christian preacher and says that he took up the cause of some Christian terror movement and radical Christianity.
But hey, I'm still struggling to find out why the above facts about Mr Shahzad should be ignored so vigorously by the Muslim members here.
hmmmm, why is that?
- event horizon
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Well, when we have some facts we can examine them. So far we have some 'I went to Waziristan and they forgot to tell me that putting fertilizer in a gun cabinet does not make a bomb' type 'facts' which basically shows either they taught him to ignore the information available on the internet, or he's just a numpty whose claims he was trained by the Taliban are being denied by the Taliban.
Doesn't change the fact that the only suicide bomber in the US this year was a Catholic whose grudge against his fellow Americans was over taxes. God help us if the Huttarees etc get beyond the planning stages of their terror plots!
We should be grateful that Shahzad didn't learn from the successful terror attacks in the US - carried out by non-muslims.
Cheers,
Shafique
Doesn't change the fact that the only suicide bomber in the US this year was a Catholic whose grudge against his fellow Americans was over taxes. God help us if the Huttarees etc get beyond the planning stages of their terror plots!
We should be grateful that Shahzad didn't learn from the successful terror attacks in the US - carried out by non-muslims.
Cheers,
Shafique
- shafique
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