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Why do you find it so hard to denounce Goldstein as a Western religious terrorist who killed because of his Biblical beliefs?

(That was rhetorical - we know the reason you side with those who venerate him and similarly refuse to denounce him)

Cheers,
Shafique

event horizon wrote:False analogies can be fun, but Moses is not considered an exemplar for all humanity, Muhammad is.

Anyway, still waiting for you to tell me if destroying crops to force civilians to surrender is collective punishment.

I have stopped answering people about Islam when I feel they are just people who have nothing to do and in fact seem to have issues with their own beliefs. It is pretty lame discussing some else's faith when you have no idea who you are. However, I do wish to comment on your above comment. "Moses is not considered an exemplar for all humanity". Where exactly did u get this from? What is the difference between being an exemplar for the so called "chosen nation" and being an exemplar for all humanity.

If you are Jewish then he is the founder of your faith and the teacher of your life's belief. If you are Christian then he is the bringer of your first testament and the man whose life is painfully detailed in holy scripture. Muslims view him as a messenger of God and therefore an exemplary figure. So if he is not considered an exemplar for humanity then who is? You? Or my neighbor the cross-eyed camel-p<3n producer?

You make some good points.

I had to start this thread when eh refused to condemn Goldstein as a religious terrorist who based his actions on the Bible - and yet insisted that Muslim terrorists are basing their actions on his misinterpretations of the Quran.

What most grown up debaters realise is that all scripture has been misused to justify acts not condoned by the founders of their religions - with Goldstein being just one example.

The grown ups don't hesitate in recognising this fact and condemn Goldstein as just another example of religious terrorists.

What is fascinating is why eh refuses to condemn this white guy who killed Muslims and based his actions on the Bible.

Cheers,
Shafique

I have no problem condemning middle eastern terrorists who actually kill unbelievers based on the texts and teachings of their religion.

Khalid ibn Walid, a war criminal who executed thousands of POWs by beheading, is one example of a terrorist that I am more than happy to condemn (and a Muslim that others have chosen to apologize for).

I understand you don't have problems condemning bombings carried out by Middle Easterners - it appears only the killings carried out by White Jewish people that you can't condemn.

Any other traits you'd like to share with us?

Anyway, what Goldstein shows is that the Bible can be used to justify the killings of innocents and that these acts are celebrated and venerated by some (it appears that you are among these people who refuse to condemn him).

Therefore we can conclude that the Bible is used by people like you to celebrate the killings of innocent worshippers, but that it would be stupid of people to condemn the whole of Judaism or Christianity because of the actions of Goldstein and his supporters and those like you who refuse to condemn him.

It is as stupid as those who think the Quran condones the killings of all Jews and Christians.

Cheers,
Shafique

event horizon wrote:I have no problem condemning middle eastern terrorists who actually kill unbelievers based on the texts and teachings of their religion.

Khalid ibn Walid, a war criminal who executed thousands of POWs by beheading, is one example of a terrorist that I am more than happy to condemn (and a Muslim that others have chosen to apologize for).

I really want to understand something. As far as I know Islam, Christianity, Judaism, Hinduism, Buddhism, etc etc are not some modern cults with 2000 followers. They are thousands of years old and have millions if not billions of followers. Now, since you; forgive me but; an absolute unknown in human history have made it your personal mission to post absolutely everything on this forum that you can think of to undermine one of these religions, do you believe that you are cleverer than all those "fools" that follow such religions. These religions have had followers that went on to do great things to advance human history. Who are you to state that they are all following a regime of 1- murderers or 2- morons. You don't seem to acknowledge that out of the thousands of faiths that emerged, these few survived and gathered such huge followings because there were and are strong elements of truth in them. How can that not make you a little apprehensive about the way you are constantly attacking them?

I really hope that I can one day comprehend this line of thinking. To openly and incessantly condemn such an obvious aspect of a faith you must be so convinced of your opinion that you do not see in that belief anything worthwhile. So are you collectively smarter than those billions? If you are, you might want to work on your posts because they are really masking your apparently almost god-like IQ level.

bump for eh - who now says that Israel does commit war crimes and that the crimes they commit resemble those committed by Biblical prophets like Moses (who is reported to have slaughtered women, babies and animals of towns captured by the Israelites).


Cheers,
Shafique

I'm happy to condemn Muhammad's war crimes and any imagined war crimes you believe Israel has committed.

I'm clear that you condemn war crimes when committed by Muslims (even imagined ones). This thread was about whether you are just Islamophobic or whether you are humanist when it comes to condemning acts of terrorism.

I'm just emphasising that you refuse to condemn this white American/Jewish terrorist who killed in the name of the Bible.

Cheers,
Shafique

Today eh-oh says he's happy to condemn Israeli war crimes.

So, it appears only Jewish Terrorists who are white and use the Bible to justify their killings are not condemned by eh-oh.

Oh dear.

Cheers,
Shafique

Another one of those threads which eh probably now has time to reply to, perhaps?

I have no problem condemning middle eastern terrorists.

Sigh.

Why don't you also condemn the white American Jewish terrorist holding Israeli passports then?

Cheers,
Shafique

A bump for the new year. Perhaps eh has a new year resolution to answer outstanding questions?

shafique wrote:A bump for the new year. Perhaps eh has a new year resolution to answer outstanding questions?

I have no problem condemning Middle Eastern terrorists who massacred (by beheading) unarmed villagers.

Won't you also join me in condemning these terrorists?

Sure, I condemn all terrorists of whatever nationality, religion or ethinicity - middle eastern (Israeli or Arab) terrorists who kill civilians by blowing them up or with guns and knives aren't any special.

What this thread was asking though - was whether YOU joined me in condemning a Jewish Religious terrorist who happened to be American born, white, educated and rational - and also a person whose actions are venerated by some in Israel.

Your silence on this specific point speaks volumes.

Cheers,
Shafique

CIA recognised that Goldstein was an American Jewish Terrorist - as per the leaked CIA memo about America exporting terrorism:

"Some American Jews have supported and even engaged in violent acts against perceived enemies of Israel," the report reads. "In 1994, Baruch Goldstein, an American Jewish doctor from New York, emigrated to Israel, joined the extremist group Kach, and killed 29 Palestinians during their prayers in the mosque at the Tomb of the Patriarchs in Hebron which helped trigger a wave of bus bombings by Hamas in early 1995."

http://www.haaretz.com/news/internation ... m-1.310391

And yet we still have no condemnation from eh of this religiously motivated American born terrorist doctor.

Cheers,
Shafique

Baruch Goldstein was a secular actor motivated for secular reasons - Islamists/Arabists killed some of his people and he returned the favor by killing some of their people.

Religion was not a factor.

LOL.

The young loon has finally lost it.

And still no condemnation of the American Jewish religious terrorist.

Let's compare facts with eh's fiction:

What terrorist attacks have been associated with Kach and Kahane Chai?

In 2005 a nineteen-year-old Israeli Army soldier affiliated with Kahane Chai deserted his unit, later opening fire on a bus killing four Arab-Israelis. But the deadliest attack by the groups came in February 1994, shortly after the signing of the Oslo Accords between Israel and the PLO. Baruch Goldstein, a Brooklyn-born doctor and Kach supporter, opened fire with a machine gun inside the Ibrahimi Mosque in Hebron. He killed twenty-nine people and wounded dozens more before he himself was killed. Goldstein chose to attack at a particularly sensitive religious site; the mosque is built atop the Cave of the Patriarchs, where, according to both Jewish and Muslim traditions, the prophet Abraham and his family are buried.

http://www.cfr.org/publication/9178/kac ... mists.html

So, the religious nutter is condoning the religous terrorist who slaughtered 29 worshippers on the Jewish feast day of Purim - because a peace accord had been signed!

Cheers,
Shafique

Thank you for demonstrating your refusal for accepting the facts.

The fact is that Barusch's action was motivated by revenge, not religion.

LOL - do you visit planet earth often? What is the weather like on loonville?

I also note that you still can't bring yourself to condemn the American Jewish terrorist. Ho hum - that is one of the reasons why you're the most extreme religous fanatic posting here:
philosophy-dubai/most-extreme-religous-fanatic-here-t41961.html

Cheers,
Shafique

bump for capiscum.