spoonman wrote:Dear Shaf,
I've read a lof of their books (almost all of them in farsi and a few in arabic , though couldn't undrestand much of the arabic ones, as my arabic is in a very basic level)
It is clearly stated that its a new religon completely different from islam while born from it. (it's like calling christianity a wild offshoot of judism)
Have you read the writings of Bab and Bahaullah? I'd be interested in your views on their original teachings.
The current day books are clear about Bahaism being a new religion - this is how it is portrayed in the West. I didn't realise that this was also the case in Farsi literature. My understanding was that initial converts from Islam viewed the teachings as part of Shia teachings (Bab, for example prophecised that the time of the Mahdi was close, then Bahaullah claimed to be the fulfilment of the prophecy)
spoonman wrote:The reason I asked was that moslems reaction toward a post-Islamic monotheistic religon could be quite nasty.
For some, yes - but generally in history the variant traditions have been allowed to flourish. There are many Sufi sects who have traditions which are close to idolatory for many (just look at the list of sects the Wahabi's think are wrong!). Another sect that came from Shia traditions and has evolved into believing in reincarnation, not praying 5 times a day etc are the Druze of Lebanon.
As I said, my research has shown that the main reason for attacks against Bahais have been their political aims, not because of religion.
I've read a 200 page book that claimed that Muhammad never claimed he was the last prophet, though the last 'Nabi' (quite different from the word 'Rasool'). with a lot of quran verses and hadith supporting the idea.
the one I remember now is the verse in quran (va ena ja'alnakom omate vosta - we set you a nation in the middle of nations - my own translation
All Muslims believe that there will be a reformer to come in the latter days - 'Imam Mahdi', and also that Jesus will come back. However, the Quran is quite clear that the religion of Islam represents the final evolution of religion for mankind, and that there will be no new law or religious values that will come after.
spoonman wrote:Its quite the fly in the soup of shia muslems. Regarding the prosecutions, those were only in Islamic countries with the lowest tollerence for other beliefs. and another reason in Iran was that the first disagreements toward monarchy of Iran which led to the birth of the a parlimant and democracy was motivated and in some occasions led by Babis.
It depends on whose 'spin' you are listening to. There are still Jewish people in Iran, as well as Zoroastrians and other faiths. In Shia (or Muslilm lands generally) there have not been the widespread and nasty anti-semitism found in Europe. There is a list (which Valkyrie will no doubt quote again) of incidences of violence against Jews in Muslim lands - but the list is relatively short and pales into insignificance with the European pogroms etc when you compare the numbers oppressed/killed.
Many would argue that the most oppressive muslim regimes today are Sunni (I won't name names, but note that I am a Sunni as well).
spoonman wrote:The dependecy on Russia, England and nowadays Isreal is the justification for the Iranian goverment to torture and murder them as much as they like. I dont see a logic in that, but I'm quite eager to see any connections.
Regimes throughout the world torture and murder those who oppose the ruling classes. Many countries have the death penalty for Treason. The question is what charges the Iranians are bringing against the Bahais. I believe there is no justification for torture and murder, but I do believe that governments have a right to combat insurrections.
Why would Russia support an off-shoot of Shia Islam? More interestingly, why would Israel? (My brother visited their headquarters in Israel a few years back - it is quite a wonderful building and grounds.)
spoonman wrote:and at the end the thing that matters to me about them is their take on Peace, violence and tolerance.
All religions have the same core values. I would argue that the actions matter as well - and for the Bahais, the history is not that rosy. They took up arms against the Persian rulers and Bab's teachings are pretty brutal.
This aspect is one of the inconsistencies I referred to in my previous post.