Please Help Us!

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Re: Please help us! Jul 11, 2010
LOL, 70% of Gazans can follow DF:

http://www.neareastconsulting.com/surveys/all/p43/out_ct_region_t1.php

cell phone per population:
Sudan 27%
Somalia 6%
Cuba 3%
Gaza 58%

But Gaza is worse of than Canada: 64%

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Re: Please Help Us! Jul 11, 2010
Yawn.

I understand that 97.485% of Dutch don't believe in your spin and 98.636% of DFs don't care. ;)

(Hey, this pulling stats out of one's ar.se saves a lot of time! :alien: )

BTW, did you decide to start this thread before or after you clicked on this link:
http://www.gaza-strophe.com/eng/index.htm

Cheers,
Shafique
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Re: Please help us! Jul 11, 2010
http://www.maannews.net/eng/ViewDetails.aspx?ID=285242

Gaza – Ma'an – Gaza's first Olympic-standard swimming pool was inaugurated at the As-Sadaka club during a ceremony on Tuesday held by the Islamic Society.
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Re: Please Help Us! Jul 11, 2010
Given that there are more than one Olympic-sized swimming pools in Lebanon, are you now providing evidence that Gaza is (after all) in a worse off situation than Lebanon? Or perhaps you're applauding what the government is doing despite the siege?

I see no refutation that 80% are dependant on food aid or any real evidence to back up your claim that Lebanese residents are worse off than Gazans.

Must try harder.

Given that Israel is having to loosen the siege and Bibi is arguing (perversely) that this is now in Israel's interest to loosen the siege, what is the point in trying to falsely paint Gaza as a peaceful haven?

You forgot to answer this question:
shafique wrote:BTW, did you decide to start this thread before or after you clicked on this link:
http://www.gaza-strophe.com/eng/index.htm



Cheers,
Shafique
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Re: Please help us! Jul 12, 2010
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Re: Please help us! Jul 12, 2010
Hey, after the failure last night - let me help you out in the name of charity.

Here's an extract from the Jerusalem Post piece in 'Gaza - A Paradise' thread:

SO WHO are these goddamn Jew-haters and their boats, The Rachel Corrie – the “St. Pancake” they should call it. Who are these Nazi human rights organizations? And who is this John Ging, this terrorist who runs UNRWA in Gaza? “We recommend the world send ships to Gaza,” he says. “Breaking the siege on Gaza is possible.”

We should put him on a ship and sink it.

The UN. Anti-Semites, all of them. They try to make everything in Gaza look terrible. Read this garbage by the “UN Office for the Coordinator of Humanitarian Affairs, Occupied Palestinian Territory.” (“Occupied.” I love that.) They put out a report every week about how awful it is for the poor Palestinians. Look at this crap from their last one, for May 12-18:

“Imports of industrial fuel to operate the Gaza power plant further declined this week… this week’s figure represents 27 percent of the actual estimated weekly amount of fuel required for the power plant to operate at full capacity. As a result, the majority of the population continues to experience power cuts of eight to 12 hours per day, forcing them to rely on generators run by fuel… These generators, which are imported largely through tunnels under the Gaza-Egypt border, can be unsafe… [A] generator fire broke out inside a house this week, killing two members of one family and injuring five others. Since the beginning of the year, 31 Palestinians have been killed and 41 others injured in generator-related incidents.”

They’re not careful – that’s our fault? They probably started the fires on purpose to blame it on Israel. Here’s some more garbage:

“Quantities of imported cooking gas also further declined this week… representing only 64% of the average weekly needs… As shortfalls continue, the rationing scheme for cooking gas, introduced in November 2009, remains in place.”

Oh, too bad, they won’t be able to heat their ice cream. A tragedy. Now look what big, bad Israel is doing to the poor fisherman in Gaza:

“Israeli restrictions on Palestinian access to fishing areas beyond three nautical miles from shore also continued to be enforced; in at least two incidents this week, Israeli naval vessels opened ‘warning’ fire toward Palestinian fishing boats, forcing them ashore.”

dubai-politics-talk/gaza-paradise-jerusalem-post-t42064.html

I mean, it's a bit rich to quote the UN report from May 2010 as 'fact' (even in a sarcastic way) - but as the Israeli government says, Gaza is a paradise and who is the 'UN' etc to contradict this?

I presume you'll not be ordering Paella or Octopus for lunch (or will you?) :mrgreen:

(Note even though as an actuary I'm itching to tell you that crude death rates are influenced by age profile and need to be standardised for this before comparing two countries, I'll gloss over that fact and also won't remind you today that you still haven't answered the question I posed above)

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Shafique
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Re: Please help us! Jul 12, 2010
http://backspin.typepad.com/backspin/2008/09/scenes-from-the.html

Lauren Booth in 'the largest concentration camp of the world'.

They accepted Master Card.
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Re: Please Help Us! Jul 12, 2010
Life expectancy under occupation 73 years, life expectancy in Israel 79 years (at birth).

Jerusalem Post wrote:Gaza is a paradise if Foreign Ministry statements are any indication.
Don’t you just wish you lived in Gaza? Don’t you just envy those people who get to raise their kids amid such abundance? Look at all the stuff they’ve got:

“Truckloads of meat, poultry, fish, dairy products, fruits, vegetables, milk powder, baby food, wheat and other staples arrive in Gaza on a daily basis,” said the Foreign Ministry in advance of the “Freedom Flotilla,” due to either reach Gaza or get intercepted by the navy today.


BTW, did you decide to start this thread before or after you clicked on this link:
http://www.gaza-strophe.com/eng/index.htm
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Re: Please help us! Jul 12, 2010
http://travel.mapsofworld.com/palestine/gaza-tours/restaurants-in-gaza.html

Which restaurant to choose?

The different dishes served in the varied Restaurants in Gaza will make your trip to the city a memorable one. There are many Restaurants in Gaza that offer unlimited opportunities to savor the traditional dishes of the country.

There are many types of Restaurants in Gaza. Tourists as well as locals can savor both traditional and regional flavors of the country. The dishes served in the varied restaurants of the hotel make use of a wide range of local ingredients. The restaurants serve vegetarian as well as non- vegetarian dishes that are prepared with extreme care and precision. You can relish the tortillas and the fajitas.

There are also many restaurants that serve excellent range of international dishes. There are some of the best Mexican restaurants in the city of Gaza. Apart from these there are many specialty restaurants in the city. Locals as well as tourists come to the different snack parlor and the cafe clubs that are scattered throughout the city. Locals mainly visit these places because of the quick services and the reasonable prices of the food. Visitors can relish a variety of local snacks that are prepared with great care.

The prices of the dishes mainly vary from one place to the other. Prices of dishes in most cases are usually moderate excepting a handful number of places. Most of the restaurants of Palestine are beautifully decorated. One can sit and relax in the cozy corners of the restaurants and can have a wide range of dishes. The staff of the restaurants is also friendly.

You can easily get a seat for yourself in the different Restaurants in Gaza. But on festive occasions seats are not available so easily. So it would be wise to book a table for yourself on the different special occasions.

All the Gaza restaurants are well located. There are varied ways of transportation in the city. You can avail any of the different means of transport to reach your destinations. Even if you walk around the city you would come across many restaurants and eateries.
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Re: Please Help Us! Jul 12, 2010
Infant mortality in Gaza strip is about 425% of that in Israel (for every one infant death in Israel - per thousand population, there are 4.25 in Gaza strip).
https://www.cia.gov/library/publication ... 1rank.html

And yet the spin continues.

You're not avoiding my question are you:
BTW, did you decide to start this thread before or after you clicked on this link:
http://www.gaza-strophe.com/eng/index.htm



I understand that you guys hate coming 2nd in competitions - but hey, look on the bright side - you made it to the finals. No need to keep flogging dead horses that even Jersusalem Post thinks is pure propaganda.

But, carry on if it makes you feel a bit better (but don't forget to answer my simple question). ;)

Cheers,
Shafique
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Re: Please help us! Jul 18, 2010
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Re: Please help us! Jul 18, 2010
Sounds like the infant mortality rate in Gaza is about the same as it is in the W. Bank and Mexico........
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Re: Please Help Us! Jul 18, 2010
So, no dispute that a child born in Israel is 4 times less likely to die as infant than a child born a few miles away under Israeli siege conditions. But hey, given that the same number of Mexicans are also dying - that's ok then.

They have swimming pools and luxury malls, after all - just like Mumbai and Rio. ;)

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Shafique
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Re: Please help us! Jul 18, 2010
Gazans not happy with food aid and fridges (it ruines the market):

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d3smJH8jb6M

:shock: :shock: :shock:
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Re: Please Help Us! Jul 18, 2010
Hey, let me help you out with the Israeli govt propaganda:
dubai-politics-talk/gaza-paradise-jerusalem-post-t42064.html#p338325

You'll find other funny references to football teams to go with the swimming pools, restaurants etc.

Didn't convince Jerusalem Post back in May, but you don't seem to have got the message. ;)

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Shafique
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Re: Please help us! Jul 19, 2010
Last Eid

Too bad Hamas has a history preventing Gazans to the Hajj.

Where is their flotilla?:

not_arab_enough.jpg
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Re: Please Help Us! Jul 19, 2010
FD - I applaud your tenacity. You should really put yourself up for an award from the Israelis for taking on this lost cause. You do realise that the loons/fanbois that believe the spin is a small minority, don't you?

It must really hurt you guys to see that the siege of Gaza has been an epic failure and that Bibi has had to make such an embarrassing u-turn and claim that LIFTING the siege is now in Israel's best interest.
(See thread: Haaretz: Are loons dumb)

But hey, if you want to continue to flog this dead horse.. let me respond to your latest attempts at spin:
shafique wrote:Hey, let me help you out with the Israeli govt propaganda:
dubai-politics-talk/gaza-paradise-jerusalem-post-t42064.html#p338325

You'll find other funny references to football teams to go with the swimming pools, restaurants etc.

Didn't convince Jerusalem Post back in May, but you don't seem to have got the message. ;)


As for the loon propaganda above in the poster - it Fails on a number of levels.

Firstly, Darfur is the most Muslim region of Sudan - all are Muslim there. All are ethnically black, all speak Arabic. The 'Arabs' and the 'Blacks' are the same race, religion and nationality - just different tribes or different social status' within the tribes. Therefore the loon caption 'not Arab enough' is an epic failure (but an understandable one if one doesn't go beyond the media headlines). In Darfur Sudanese Arabic speaking Black Muslims are fighting Sudanese Arabic speaking Black Muslims. (And please don't confuse this clarification with any sort of condoning of the violence and suffering taking place there.)

As for the photos of the Gazans making the most of life under siege last year - it is heart-warming to see that banned chocolate was smuggled in so that the children did not have go without. I can imagine FD arguing that the Warsaw Ghetto under Hitler wasn't too bad a place because those living there drank wine each Sabbath and danced on holidays! :shock:

But is FD really arguing that Israel is as bad as the Janui in Darfur? !! :shock:

Has FD forgotten the destruction wreaked by Israel that refuses to send in construction material:

Image
http://www.normanfinkelstein.com/at-wha ... r-comfort/

But that said, fascinating how when presented with evidence that the Israeli govt spin is being dismissed in Israel (as well as being ridiculed by the rest of the world), the loons try and change tack and invoke the tu quoque argument.

What must really make loons/fanbois hearts drop is the repeated reports that contradict the Israeli spin. Not least the pronouncement from Baroness Ashton yesterday that the Gaza siege should be totally lifted.

Anyway, call me crazeeee, but I'm siding with these guys and rejecting the Israeli line:

Gaza: Blockade 'Easing' not enough, say leading NGOs, as EU's Baroness Ashton visits
Posted: 18 July 2010
Amnesty International UK, Broederlijk Delen, CAFOD, Christian Aid, Christian Aid Ireland, CCFD, Cordaid, Diakonia, FIDH, Finn Church Aid, Handicap International, ICCO, IKV Pax Christi, Medical Aid to the Palestinians, medico international, Quaker Council for European Affairs, Secours Islamique, War Child UK

The EU must insist on the full lifting of the blockade of Gaza, not just its easing, if it is serious about helping the economy of Gaza recover and allowing its people to rebuild their lives, says a group of 18 international development, human rights and peace-building organisations, as EU High Representative Catherine Ashton visits Gaza today (18 July). A group of European foreign ministers is also expected to visit Gaza soon.
...

http://www.amnesty.org.uk/news_details.asp?NewsID=18895

Cheers,
Shafique
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Re: Please Help Us! Jul 19, 2010
I almost forgot (again):

You forgot to answer this question:
shafique wrote:BTW, did you decide to start this thread before or after you clicked on this link:
http://www.gaza-strophe.com/eng/index.htm
shafique
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Re: Please help us! Jul 19, 2010
:roll: :roll: :roll:

Perhaps, Gazans themselves saying that food aid is something they donot need and that supermarkets are stocks wall to wall is missed. Based on that I would say food can be better send to Darfur than Gaza. Gazans donot need it (their own words), while in Darfur they do. Thought that was simple. :shock:

Interesting that Gazans prefer Israeli fridges over Arab fridges.
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Re: Please help us! Jul 19, 2010
What is causing you most concern FD - the fact that the Gaza siege is in the process of crumbling, or that no one (not Jerusalem Post, Amnesty International etc) are buying the Israeli spin?

Fascinating that you now seem to be arguing that the Gazans are living it up whilst under siege - pretty much arguing that the siege did not work!

But let me ask you once again:
BTW, did you decide to start this thread before or after you clicked on this link:
http://www.gaza-strophe.com/eng/index.htm

Cheers,
Shafique
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Re: Please help us! Jul 19, 2010
The argument isn't that Gaza is a summer resort. The argument is that Gaza isn't doing that bad as the foaming left suggests. Nobody is starving and GDP grew with 5,5% in 2009. And yes, I find it cynical that the Gaza rulers (Hamas) find resources to open an Olympic size swimming pool, an air-conditioned shopping mall and dine in luxureous restaurants.
Obviously there is hunger in Darfur. I can only guess for the reason people still think Gazans need food aid more (although they deny it themselves) than people in Darfur.
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Re: Please Help Us! Jul 19, 2010
Ok, so you disagree with the people who view your arguments as no more than cynical Israeli government spin.

Fair enough. I'm with the Jersusalem Post on this one - they don't buy the 'it's not that bad in Gaza' line.

As for food aid, given that the UN states that 80% of Gazans are dependant on food aid, I really wonder whether you actually believe what you type or are just having some fun. (Also, I couldn't find a reference which said it was the Government of Gaza that paid for the swimming pool at the sports club - perhaps you have such a reference? I don't think it is a bad thing for a goverment to spend on such facilities, but I'm asking for a reference for your statement in the previous post.)

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Shafique
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Re: Please help us! Jul 19, 2010
Sky News report from Saturday. Seems to be consistent with the general consensus of accounts of the situation under the siege, and notably different from what some have chosen to believe:

Supplies For Gaza But Situation Still Dire Share
3:59pm UK, Saturday July 17, 2010

Lisa Holland, foreign affairs correspondent, in Gaza

A month after Israel announced it was easing its blockade of Gaza, food supplies are getting better. But the overall humanitarian situation remains dire.

Israel agreed to ease the blockade after international pressure

We witnessed a food truck arriving at a supermarket direct from Israel for the first time in four years.

The supermarket owner shouted "Wow!" as he lifted up the shutters of the vehicle to discover crates of orange juice and water.

It may not sound like a remarkable delivery but, for these people, it was a remarkable event.The blockade has meant that only basics like flour, rice and sugar have been allowed into Gaza from Israel. Everyday items like tomato ketchup and canned drinks like Coca Cola have been viewed as luxury items.

The Palestinians have had to smuggle them in through tunnels from Egypt - usually it means they arrive battered and dirty and are sold for double the normal price. That has changed because food supplies are being allowed in - imported direct from Israel.

The big attraction in the supermarket where we were was digestive biscuits made in Turkey. Israel agreed to ease its blockade of Gaza a month ago after intense international pressure.There are signs of an improvement in the Gaza Strip but it will take much more than full supermarket shelves to have a real impact on the miserable existence of most Gazans.

A boat from Libya last week tried unsuccessfully to beat the blockade

Two thirds of the people in Gaza rely on food aid from the United Nations and other organisations.

And even though restrictions on food imports have been lifted, ordinary civilians still can't bring in building materials such as steel and concrete.

Israel fears it will be seized by Hamas, the Islamist rulers of Gaza, and used to build military installations.

Outside one of their distribution centres in Gaza, John Ging, head of the UN's Relief and Works Agency in Gaza, told me: "Now we have to focus on the economy.

"We have 800,000 refugees queuing at our food distribution centres.
"They can't afford to buy cans of Coca Cola from Israel.
"All they can do is come here and collect their five basic food items and that's all they have to live on.
"We now have to focus on getting these people back to work, on starting an economy, and that's all of course about bringing in raw materials, starting the construction industry and then exports.
"The big issues have yet to be achieved but we've taken the first steps."


http://news.sky.com/skynews/Home/World-News/Israel-Eases-Blockade-Of-Gaza-Although-Luxury-Goods-Remain-Scarce/Article/201007315666276?lpos=World_News_First_Home_Article_Teaser_Region_7&lid=ARTICLE_15666276_Israel_Eases_Blockade_Of_Gaza%2C_Although_Luxury_Goods_Remain_Scarce

Lisa appears not to have gone for a swim or a gourmet dinner! :wink:

BTW - I trust you are getting the reference that shows the Government of Gaza paid for the swimming pool.

Cheers,
Shafique
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Re: Please help us! Jul 19, 2010
Firstly, Darfur is the most Muslim region of Sudan - all are Muslim there. All are ethnically black, all speak Arabic. The 'Arabs' and the 'Blacks' are the same race, religion and nationality - just different tribes or different social status' within the tribes. Therefore the loon caption 'not Arab enough' is an epic failure (but an understandable one if one doesn't go beyond the media headlines). In Darfur Sudanese Arabic speaking Black Muslims are fighting Sudanese Arabic speaking Black Muslims. (And please don't confuse this clarification with any sort of condoning of the violence and suffering taking place there.)


LoL

Epic fail there.

FD's point was that the suffering of non-Arabs does not merit the same attention as the plight of Arabs does for loons and Muslims.

Or perhaps another reason why Darfur is the 'acceptable' 'genocide' in the Muslim world is because the killers are Muslims and, like the Kurds killed by Saddam Hussein, Muslims have selective outrage.

Image

End the genocide in Darfur ! Hahah......just kidding. Boycott Denmark !
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Re: Please Help Us! Jul 19, 2010
^Are you too comparing the Israelis with those committing atrocities in Darfur? Strange, I had you down as a fanboi. :mrgreen:

I guess you have to resort to rhetoric when the facts on the ground are that no one believes the Israeli spin. No wonder you have no comment to my last post! ;)

But hey, you know what has to be done when you post your favourite loon images of Moooslims...

Image
Image

Cheers,
Shafique
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Re: Please help us! Jul 19, 2010
shafique wrote:Sky News report from Saturday. Seems to be consistent with the general consensus of accounts of the situation under the siege, and notably different from what some have chosen to believe:

http://news.sky.com/skynews/Home/World-News/Israel-Eases-Blockade-Of-Gaza-Although-Luxury-Goods-Remain-Scarce/Article/201007315666276?lpos=World_News_First_Home_Article_Teaser_Region_7&lid=ARTICLE_15666276_Israel_Eases_Blockade_Of_Gaza%2C_Although_Luxury_Goods_Remain_Scarce

Shafique


Why so selective Shafique? Normally you love posting the comments don't you?
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Re: Please Help Us! Jul 19, 2010
The first comment (i.e. the latest comment) currently is:

Posted by: bob149 on July 19, 2010 4:01 PM
If honestreporting is being claimed as a valid critique claiming a web page giving the truth then please view both the dot com and the dot org version and the viewpoints of associated international links.
Shooting oneself in the foot comes to mind

:) Fortuitous, n'est pas?

And bob's earlier comment:
Posted by: bob149 on July 19, 2010 11:52 AM
I cannot believe the lack of humanity and ignorance of many of the comment writers here. Please visit theonlydemocracy pages and fiind out what is truly happening. Stop hiding your heads in the sand. Israel has the right to exist but not to commit war crimes in the guise of self defence. If anyone can give any real unbiased publication supporting many of the views espoused here on the state of Gaza and the people now, please post its reference, it would make interesting and laughable reading. To condemn Lisa Holland's article and other Skynews writers for revealing the truth is criminal and to criticize the BBC, one of the world's most unbiased news providers, it beggars belief. What next, condemn the United Nations it's unfair to Israel.


I quoted the article in full, and the article describes what the journalist saw. Remember fanbois are notorious for jumping in and giving Israeli spin (just look at any Economist article that mentions Israel and look at the comments).

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Shafique
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Re: Please help us! Jul 19, 2010
Another aspect of this whole loon argument that the media is lying to the world about Gaza is rather deliciously ironic.

Fanbois are complaining that the world is believing something the fanbois are frantically jumping up and down and declaring as spin. The world isn't listening though and toys are now being thrown out of the pram!

Hmm - in some ways it would be even more humiliating for the Israeli government if it did actually transpire that they siege failed and they had to disband it fully because they were outmanoeuvred by PR!

However, when I hear hooves I think horses - when the UN, Amnesty International, Baroness Ashton, Jerusalem Post, Sky News (and heck, even Obama) talk about the situation in Gaza being dire etc, I rather think the fanbois protest too much!
:mrgreen:


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Shafique
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Re: Please Help Us! Jul 19, 2010
shafique wrote:^Are you too comparing the Israelis with those committing atrocities in Darfur? Strange, I had you down as a fanboi. :mrgreen:

I guess you have to resort to rhetoric when the facts on the ground are that no one believes the Israeli spin. No wonder you have no comment to my last post! ;)

But hey, you know what has to be done when you post your favourite loon images of Moooslims...



Cheers,
Shafique


So you're agreeing with me that Muslims and loon Leftists are selective when it comes to certain grievances (I couldn't say perceived human rights abuses since publishing some cartoons is not a perceived human rights abuse, that I know of)
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Re: Please help us! Jul 19, 2010
According to an UNRWA 2007 report 41% of Gaza women suffer from obesitas and a third of Gaza men suffer from obesitas.

:shock: :shock: :shock:
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