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event horizon · Dec 20, 2009

Cool - but I think you need help more than I do. You have not provided a single news article verifying any of your numbers.

So, it looks like your count stands at around zero.

shafique · Dec 20, 2009

No problem - I've listed quite a few of your quaint beliefs - we'll just add the interesting leap of logic that equates 232 with zero.

But, as I said, I'm happy to help out and try increase your count of 4 - I'm sure if we really try we can reach 10.

So whatdaya say? Shall we go for number 5?

Cheers,
Shafique

shafique · Dec 22, 2009

Ok, shall we now try and find a fifth convert terrorist for you?

I want to help you reach 10 by the new year - so c'mon, let's have your next candidate. You can verify my numbers in the new year - but for now let's both focus on getting your numbers up, all in the spirit of Christmas!

Cheers,
Shafique

event horizon · Dec 23, 2009

shafique wrote:No problem - I've listed quite a few of your quaint beliefs - we'll just add the interesting leap of logic that equates 232 with zero.

But, as I said, I'm happy to help out and try increase your count of 4 - I'm sure if we really try we can reach 10.

So whatdaya say? Shall we go for number 5?

Cheers,
Shafique

That's quite simple. In fairness to accuracy, I can't accept your figures until you a) provide news articles confirming the death toll, b) show that the NLFT were indeed behind these atrocities and c) prove that Christian converts carried these attacks out.

shafique · Dec 23, 2009

I've invited you to verify my figures - the source is on the first page of this list and I painstakingly went through each incident. Given that there were so many, and that I excluded the majority of the incidents listed - my count is a deliberate understatement.

But that is my count - I'm still on a 'Christmas truce' and trying to help you get your figures up from 4 terrorists.

You can verify my figures and challenge each incident I've counted in the New Year - I'll listen to each and every challenge where you think the terrorist acts listed should or should not be counted.

So, shall we try and get your count up to 5 - or are you 'sticking' at 4 terrorists over the 9 years in question (2001 to 2009 inclusive)?

Cheers,
Shafique

event horizon · Dec 23, 2009

Oh dear, you are a bit of a slow one, I see.

the source is on the first page of this list and I painstakingly went through each incident.

Yes, that's the entire point.

Please try and read. I'm well aware that your figures are coming from a dot com website. What I want are *news* articles confirming the casualty toll in this list.

So far it is an uncited, unsupported, unsubstantiated figure that I won't entertain until the conditions in my post above are met.

shafique · Dec 23, 2009

I understand your objections - I also understand you don't want to do any work and verify that my figures are understatements. I've done my bit and given you the source - you can quite easily go through each terrorist act and then look up the newspaper reports from Indian to verify that the source is correct.

All my figures have detailed dates, locations and numbers and come from a terrorist monitoring organisation

The list of terror acts by the 'Christian Al-Qaeda' as they are sometimes called, is here:
http://www.satp.org/satporgtp/countries ... LFT_tl.htm

But that is for the new year - shall we try and get you to 5 terrorists? Or are you happy to stick at 4 over the 9 years?

Cheers,
Shafique

event horizon · Dec 23, 2009

I also understand you don't want to do any work and verify that my figures are understatements.

Nope, I don't want to do your work for you. When you get around to it, please provide a news report for every incident that meets the following guidelines above - a) the crime was actually committed, b) it was carried out by members of the NLFT and c) these members were actual converts to Christianity.

shafique · Dec 23, 2009

Fine, if you don't want to verify my figures, then there's not much more I can do to help you on that front - I've been open about where my figures come from.

So, can we now try and get you to 5 terrorists, or are you happy to stick at 4 for the 9 years?

Cheers,
Shafique

shafique · Dec 27, 2009

Well, Christmas is over and the Muslim Convert terrorist count still stands at 4. I'm still a bit embarrassed at this low count, and will extend my offer to help get it to 10 indefinitely (i.e. I won't look to increase my numbers until I help our dear young friend out and get his figures into double figures).

Perhaps if you let me know which of your favourite websites I should consult, we can uncover mad-terrorist No 5?

Cheers,
Shafique

event horizon · Dec 27, 2009

No problem - just go through the thread and include the links that have already been provided for you.

Last I recall, I have documented three or four convert suicide bombers in addition to numerous terror attacks carried out by Muslim converts.

shafique · Dec 27, 2009

I said I would 'help' - not do +all+ the work for you.

Let me know which particular news story you want me to look into for terrorist number 5 - c'mon we have less than a week if we want to get your count up to 10 before the end of the year!

Cheers,
Shafique

shafique · Dec 28, 2009

shafique wrote:
Between 2001 and 2009:

Number of Muslim Convert Terrorist carrying out attacks: 4
Number Killed by these: 146
Number Injured: 120

vs

Number of non-Muslim Convert Terrorist carrying out attacks: 242
Number killed by these: 255
Number injured :388

Only 238 behind now, but no problems - I'll help you out a bit more - please provide the next set of references.

So, please let's have reference for terrorist number 5.

Cheers,
Shafique

shafique · Jan 28, 2010

Hey, eh - did we ever find a fifth convert who committed a terrorist act between 2001 and 2009?

Cheers,
Shafique

event horizon · Jan 28, 2010

Thanks for the bump - have you found a news article of a single Christian convert terrorist who meets the parameters set in the first page of this thread yet?

I've already documented three or four Muslim convert suicide bombers - common sense tells me, that for every dude who blows himself up, there will be dozens of other non-suicide bomber terrorists.

shafique · Jan 28, 2010

You're quite welcome.

I'm still willing to help you reach 10, but first we still need to find the 5th one.

Once we get to 10, then perhaps we can revisit why you now think the 242 Christian Convert terrorists are no longer Christian Convert Terrorists. Just wishing it wasn't true doesn't really work in the real world eh!

C'mon, I'm embarrassed by your count of 4, let's try and make this a bit fairer.. bring on number 5.

Cheers,
Shafique

shafique · Jan 28, 2010

event horizon wrote:Ok, fair enough. I certainly concede that NLFT are converts to Christianity.

From the first page of this thread where all the evidence still resides.

I think you said something about 'flip-flopping' today in another thread?

But hey, don't let my count of 242 Christian convert terrorists throw you - let's concentrate on increasing your count.

Cheers,
Shafique

event horizon · Jan 28, 2010

Let's see news articles on these 242 converts? Does the source you are getting this number from say they were converts? Please explain.

shafique · Jan 28, 2010

Again, I refer you to the first page of this thread and your own conclusion. (The information of the terrorist acts are clearly listed - by an organisation set up to monitor terrorist acts - and I even provide links to a BBC news article about the group - I'm not sure what other information you want).

You were convinced in October - but I guess back then you probably did think that you'd find more than 4 Muslim convert terrorists!

Now, how about trying to get to number 5?

Cheers,
Shafique

shafique · Feb 23, 2010

I have some free time whilst waiting for eh to tackle his unaswered questions (Rapture etc) - so I am willing to extend my offer to help find the 5th example of a Muslim convert terrorist to counterbalance the 242 non-Muslim convert terrorists I've linked to.

I'm struggling to find a fifth though - eh, shall we officially close the count?

Cheers,
Shafique

shafique · Mar 03, 2010

Ok, well I guess we have reached the final count on this topic which was exploring the theory proposed by 'eh' that Islam produces more converts who commit terrorist acts than any other religion. The challenge was to look at the statistics and see whether this hypothesis is supported by any statistics.

eh chose the time period - 2001 to 2009 and even selected which areas of the world we'd look at in order. Whilst we left out those converts who indirectly may have caused the death of civilians (eg Tony Blair, some Far Eastern converts), the figures below reflect the numbers of converts who actually carried out terrorist attacks in the period.

The sum total of the Muslim converts is, uncontroversially, a grand total of..... four.

The figure on the other side is 242 - and is an underestimate of the numbers of terrorists from the 'National Holy Army' of the NLFT in India - who are called the 'Christian Al Qaeda' by some and whose terrorist acts are all listed on a Terrorist watching organisations website. Among their crimes is the forced conversions of Indians to Christianity and rather controversially, they have been supported by some Church organisations.

That said, the statistics should speak for themselves and the stats are:

shafique wrote:
shafique wrote:
Between 2001 and 2009:

Number of Muslim Convert Terrorist carrying out attacks: 4
Number Killed by these: 146
Number Injured: 120

vs

Number of non-Muslim Convert Terrorist carrying out attacks: 242
Number killed by these: 255
Number injured :388

Only 238 behind now, but no problems - I'll help you out a bit more - please provide the next set of references.

So, please let's have reference for terrorist number 5.

Cheers,
Shafique

I consider this topic closed.

Cheers,
Shafique

event horizon · Mar 03, 2010

Let me know when you have any news articles to confirm what the website you linked to claims.

event horizon · Mar 06, 2010

MOSCOW -- Russian authorities on Saturday blamed a group of Islamic militants killed and captured in an offensive last week for the November bombing of a luxury train to St. Petersburg, the deadliest terrorist attack on Russian soil outside the volatile North Caucasus in years.

Alexander Bortnikov, director of the Federal Security Service, said explosive components recovered in the raid in the troubled Ingushetia province, located west of Chechnya, and DNA taken from the alleged rebels matched those found after the attack on the Nevsky Express train, which left 28 people dead and more than 90 others injured....

Speaking in a televised meeting with President Dmitry Medvedev, Bortnikov said the group is also suspected in 15 other attacks, including bombings and the slaying of security officers.

Among those killed in the raid, he said, was Alexander Tikhomirov, a young preacher who had emerged as a major figure in the violent radical Muslim insurgency that has evolved from the Chechen separatist movement and spread across the mountains of Russia's southwest frontier.

Tikhomirov's death could represent an important victory for Russian forces in the North Caucasus, because he was considered an effective propagandist and seemed to play a key role in rallying the insurgency's ethnic and local factions around the goal of establishing a fundamentalist Caucasus Emirate.

A convert to Islam from Siberia who studied in Egypt and was thought to be in his late 20s, he had appeared in Internet videos taking credit for suicide attacks on the Ingush governor's motorcade and on a police station in Ingushetia's largest city, Nazran. The latter showed him sitting with what appeared to be a barrel of explosives, which he described as "a small present for our apostates and infidels."

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/co ... ailarticle

shafique · Mar 07, 2010

Given we were not counting those indirectly killing civilians (such as Blair, Bush), your count remains at 4.

I would have a problem estimating the numbers of civilians killed as a result of born-again Christian Bush and Catholic convert Blair have indirectly caused - so I'd rather not change the rules nd stay with the counts as above.

So - given the period was to the end of 2009, the count is final.

Cheers
Shafique

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