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http://seattlepi.nwsource.com/opinion/2 ... iew20.html

a write-up by Andrew Gumbel that appeared in UK's "The Independent"

This is an excellent article. It's so true, the US (and some UK and other) media is biased, preachy and detached from reality; their choice of words, content and unchallenged opinions reflect their bias in such an obvious manner. I wonder if those people that have been programmed to criticize Al Jazeera (for example) because well, *they're told* that Al Jazeera is propagandist - I wonder if these people stop to really analyze the mainstream media that this article talks about...most likely not...

Stop assuming things.

ironic statement, for sure.

excellent article, right?

freza wrote:ironic statement, for sure.

excellent article, right?

I thought you'd been banned or something.

^ian^ wrote:

freza wrote:ironic statement, for sure.

excellent article, right?

I thought you'd been banned or something.

no, not yet, but any day I'll get banned - considering the oh-so-obvious bias of certain peeps here.

Why don't you go post in the other threads instead of hanging out here, surely there must be some other topics that are of interest to you.

is this thread being hijacked? hope not

Avoidance as usual Freza.

With regards to the article, it's typical of US media and nothing new. It'll never change.

(avoidance?? um, no. let me not avoid then: thanks for the unsolicited, off-topic and quite unnecessary advise).

This bias and narrow-minded media practice should not be typical; it's something you expect in a fascist dictatorial society not in the land of the free...what a shame...

freza wrote:This bias and narrow-minded media practice should not be typical; it's something you expect in a fascist dictatorial society not in the land of the free...what a shame...

Actually, I know quite a few people in the States and all have access to BBC and other news channels. People are aware that Europeans etc view world affairs differently from them.

Americans are NOT (oops, missed this word out first time round) a homogenous group, in terms of politics and support of governments and their practices. You have a spectrum from neo-cons to militia-minded anti-government groups. The bulk of people, however, are just 'normal' and concerned more about their kids, local traffic and weather than spending too much time looking at what is happening half way around the world.

Most of the time, the news is watched briefly whilst skipping to the weather channel or local traffic channel.

At the end of the day, many people only care for what they think will affect them and their family. Apathy may be a big crime in your eyes - but for me it is just human nature.

Let's face it - left to themselves, most Americans would quite gladly close their borders and only worry about domestic issues. One gets the feeling that they resent having to deal with the outside world.

Just my thoughts (based on my travels in and interactions with the USA).

Cheers,
Shafique

Very true Shaf, and to be honest I think many people get fed up of turning on the news and only seeing death, doom and destruction, I know I do and it depresses the hell out of me.

freza wrote:

This bias and narrow-minded media practice should not be typical; it's something you expect in a fascist dictatorial society not in the land of the free...what a shame...

yeh really, what a shame...
I have so little faith in the governments of this world, especially in the 'civilized, free and open minded' west.
Attitudes like these have made me turn my back on the place i was born, to raise my family in a more 'uncivilized' society.

(and by the way, love your signature Freza...)

the funny video recently was george galloways bashing and he proved right there that freedom of speech is dying in US and canada. I loved the way he bashed the reporter who looked haughty but still didnt disconnect him

sniper420 wrote:the funny video recently was george galloways bashing and he proved right there that freedom of speech is dying in US and canada. I loved the way he bashed the reporter who looked haughty but still didnt disconnect him

gr8 video!! (youtube.com seems to be blocked by etisalat though!)

shafique
I agree with you on your assesment of the people that watch the mainstream US media. But the fact that many Americans are politically apathetic and have choices to view other media channels does not in any way excuse the propaganda that exists and permeates US media. Truth is being hidden and twisted by the media, apathy or not...

poppy
I've heard cases of long term immigrants and second generation individuals living in the US who have decided to move to Dubai to raise their families for various reasons, including what you've stated - quite an interesting phenomenon.

(Do you really like my sig? I believe what it states to some degree, do you? )

freza wrote:shafique
I agree with you on your assesment of the people that watch the mainstream US media. But the fact that many Americans are politically apathetic and have choices to view other media channels does not in any way excuse the propaganda that exists and permeates US media. Truth is being hidden and twisted by the media, apathy or not...

The point Freza is that even if the US media is being manipulated, the un-apathetic people have full access to non-US news media and everyone KNOWs that Fox etc are biased. The apathetic majority are all watching American idol, soaps and the traffic channel.

Truth being hidden and twisted is not unique to US media outlets - arguably you could very well level this charge against many countries in this region, including the UAE. Censorship is written into the constitution/statutes here whereas the US has a constitution guaranteeing freedom of speech.

If you have issues with media bias/untruths, may I suggest you never read the National Enquirer - a popular 'newspaper' in the States.


Cheers,
Shafique

shafique wrote:

freza wrote:shafique
I agree with you on your assesment of the people that watch the mainstream US media. But the fact that many Americans are politically apathetic and have choices to view other media channels does not in any way excuse the propaganda that exists and permeates US media. Truth is being hidden and twisted by the media, apathy or not...

The point Freza is that even if the US media is being manipulated, the un-apathetic people have full access to non-US news media and everyone KNOWs that Fox etc are biased. The apathetic majority are all watching American idol, soaps and the traffic channel.

Truth being hidden and twisted is not unique to US media outlets - arguably you could very well level this charge against many countries in this region, including the UAE. Censorship is written into the constitution/statutes here whereas the US has a constitution guaranteeing freedom of speech.

If you have issues with media bias/untruths, may I suggest you never read the National Enquirer - a popular 'newspaper' in the States.


Cheers,
Shafique

Shafique,
If you notice, my initial reply was to a thread about an interesting and valid news story that examines the US media and the language and bias that they use. Simple as that.

Of course media bias is not unique to the US, I think you state something very obvious. But the UAE and Egypt, KSA etc. are not democracies, they don't proclaim to be freedom lovers, this does not excuse the bias in their media outlets of course, but what of a democratic country that is literally fighting wars over "freedom" while supressing certain freedoms and truthfulness? Hyprocritical to say the least... Also, the fact that the truth is out there, an internet search or a satellite news channel away from a person does not mean that this person will accept the truth! Many people CHOOSE to be blinded by propaganda. It's easier to have others think for them. Also, when you know that your government is doing wrong, sometimes it's easier to excuse this bad behavior than to oppose it. Just look at DF for some examples of people that know better but choose to believe something else. Another factor: patrotism has a lot to do with it; patrotism often blinds people, even intelligent individuals.

National Enquirer? UFO's, cannibals, 20 kilo tumors and Tom Cruise? I hope you're kidding...

Freza, I'm struggling to see who you are having a go at.

The presence of biased media is a consequence of freedom of speech. Not all US media is biased - many channels are criticised by the US administration for bias against the US Government!

If you are criticising the media channels that are biased - fair enough. I'll join you in the criticism of biased reports, and so will the journalists at many very good US media outlets (NY Times, Wall Street Journal, CNBC, CNN, ABC etc etc).

I also don't follow your point that a democracy should be held to a higher standard than an autocracy when it comes to news reporting? Please explain this to me - I don't see the connection. Hitler's Germany was a democracy but had strict censorship and outlandish propaganda - and I'm sure there's a benevolent dictator somewhere in the world that allows full access to media (perhaps the Sultan of Brunei?)...

Cheers,
Shafique

"Freza, I'm struggling to see who you are having a go at."

I was responding to a post, period. Not having a go at anyone. Why would you think I'm having a go at someone


I think that the vast and overwhelming majority of US media is indeed biased, including the NY Times and better news sources. The few true Liberal views are mostly found in radio and they're a drop in a bucket. The true Leftist views are not adequately represented when it comes to the topic of war in the US media, IMHO.

"I also don't follow your point that a democracy should be held to a higher standard than an autocracy when it comes to news reporting? Please explain this to me - I don't see the connection."

I said that a democracy that proclaims freedom ad nauseum yet is full of state propaganda is hypocritical. Isn't the war in Iraq being fought for "Freedom" according to GWB? Yes or No? That is my point, not the issue that you expect certain press freedoms from democracies.

freza wrote:Just look at DF for some examples of people that know better but choose to believe something else.

Freza, not having a go at anyone, eh?

Excellent posts Shaf. I completely agree that most people in countries around the world don't pay adequate attention to dissecting the media reports. Why? Because most people are worried about their everyday lives - work, studies, family etc. Not everyone is interested in the politics of other countries - they only want to know about what directly affects them. In the end, bad foreign policy on the part of some governments means that some international issues will end up causing disruption to people's lives, but you can't expect everyone to suddenly know the details about the issues if they haven't been paying attention over all the years that trouble has been brewing.

It seems that some people think that the West should be held to some higher standard, which I find interesting. I'd like to point out that spin, concealment of facts etc. is not a Western phenomenon - why do you think that companies, organisations and governments around the world have PR professionals working for them? I'm yet to find a company, organisation or government anywhere in the world that is consistently honest with the public when they screw up.

I find it very humourous that people love to jump on the anti-West bandwagon, criticising the West for being hypocritical. What country and what government isn't hypocritical? One can criticise the concept of freedom and democracy, when despite the problems, it still means that the truth CAN come out, and people CAN vote out and vote in the political candidates of their choice. I would much rather live under that kind of system than in places where the truth never comes out because the government quashes everything. I also think that electing your own officials (democracy) is the most modern and progressive form of government on the planet. Democracy has been fought for and won by people's blood, and I won't disrespect that. It is true though, that a better educated and more critical public is best in order to ensure that the right candidates are elected. I still would rather take on that challenge and be free to elect my own officials than live under more archaic forms of government.

It would be refeshing for a change if people would start criticising the Arab/Muslim governments for their hypocrisy - instead of putting all the focus and blame on the West. In my country we are used to criticising our government and media, but it seems that many Arabs/Muslims are only good at criticising Western governments and media, not their own. I'd really like to see some accountability on the part of Arab/Muslim governments, since everyone else seems to expect accountability from the Western governments. Doesn't that sound fair? This forum is full of anti-West threads, and very little that discusses other nations' governments. Hardly fair or balanced.

By the way, I just saw a CNN documentary on Osama Bin Laden, it was also full of what I would call propaganda.

kanelli,

You missed the point that Shafique initially missed too. Did you not read my complete reply? Again you state the obvious: That hypocrisy and spin exists in every country including Arab countries - well (((hello))) we know this already. My point (again) is that these Arab countries are NOT self-appointed Freedom and Democracy fighters, unlike the US. These countries do not go around the world invading and fighting for "Freedom" while curtailing freedoms in their colonies and in their own countries. Aren't law enforcement officials in every part of the world held to a higher standard of performance and accountability? Of course. So does the self-appointed world-police = the US. Do you get my point now?

Don't whine, people are not bashing - they're criticizing - know the difference. There are critics of Arab regimes, I'm surprised you haven't heard of them. Or maybe they're not to your liking? The Muslim Brotherhood is a big critic of Mubarak's, for example, many members get thrown in jail often for their views. Again, this was not US bashing but a thread about an article that makes valid arguments about the US media. I guess some grown people don't know how to take criticism of their governments.... Too bad.

Sniper - the interview with George was on Sky - a UK news channel, owned by Rupert Murdoch, who also owns Fox.

I doubt whether Fox will be interviewing Galloway.

The interview, I would contend, is a sign of freedom of speech and freedom of reporting in the 'West'!


Interestingly, this interview is not viewed in the same light by everyone. All the people I met here who have seen it say things like 'George tells it as it is.. at last some truth...'

However, the next day in the UK the Sun newspaper - the most widely read newspaper in the UK (also owned by Rupert Murdoch incidentally) derided the interview and said that Galloway 'ranted' and raved through the interview and called his views absurd and obscene.



Cheers,
Shafique

I note in the news that in NY they are prosecuting a businessman (of Pakistani origin - but this is to be expected in NYC ) of the crime of providing access via satellite to the Al Manar news channel - Hizbollah's tv channel!

I think all he did was provide satellite installation that included the free news channel, but the authorities are arguing that as they have classified Hizbollah as a terrorist organisation, providing people access to their news channel is a crime. The businessman's lawyers are arguing that this is stupid and that it violates freedom of speech.

I wonder if anyone will argue that its criminal to watch Fox?


BTW - I've been watching bits of Al Manar when I skip through channels. It's a very professional channel and I was surprised to see the footage of the Hizbollah fighters - they were clad in military uniforms and looked aextremely professional. The coverage in English elsewhere hasn't shown any Hizbollah fighters (mostly because of Hizbollah not wanting this), so the impression many have is that Hizbollah are 'raving terrorists', whereas they are an organised army capable of resisting Israel effectively.

Cheers,
Shafique

freza wrote:Don't whine, people are not bashing - they're criticizing - know the difference. There are critics of Arab regimes, I'm surprised you haven't heard of them. Or maybe they're not to your liking? The Muslim Brotherhood is a big critic of Mubarak's, for example, many members get thrown in jail often for their views. Again, this was not US bashing but a thread about an article that makes valid arguments about the US media. I guess some grown people don't know how to take criticism of their governments.... Too bad.

I didn't miss the point of your original posts at all. I disagree that the West should be held to some higher standard, even if they make nice speeches about freedom and democracy.

What I want to see in this forum is some of the posters HERE criticising the Arab/Muslim governments. I never said anything about criticisms off of this forum. It is quite obvious that those criticisms exist, but what is also obvious is that they are rarely to never discussed here in this forum.

Where did I say bashing? I used the word criticise in my original post.

Freza, this is why it is not possible to "discuss" with you. You've got the self-righteous and offensive tone back. How dare you patronise me. I am over 30, which is a hell of a lot more grown than 23. I'm also very intelligent, but no one can convince you of that because you think you are more intelligent than everyone on this forum (including Shaf ).

Go away little girl and come back when you know how to speak respectfully with adults.

The article was so right especially the ending paragraph......... ppl are really afraid of speaking anything anti-Isreal cos of their career. I am amazed to see the support Isreali community has here in Canada and US. No I reiterate no country spreads propaganda like "Isreal and Canada together" and "Show support for Isreal" sign boards outside. I dont want my tax money going to buy bombs and killing ppl at the same time I want freedom of speech here and openly criticize Isreal.

kanelli,

If you want to read criticisms of Arab regimes, why don't you start a thread on it? Simple as that. That's a good way for you to complain so much of others that don't agree with you and for you to bash, er, criticize Arab regimes. This thread was about something specific: US media and the way they've handled war. Just because some Westerners are overly and ridiculously sensitive does not make it OK to censor critics. Criticism on this subject exists for a reason. If you can't take it, well look into yourself and try to see why the extreme aversion to criticism that isn't even directed at you! (We were talking about US media and American apathy, ((hello)) we were not talking about you.)

I do not think I am more intelligent than you or Shafique. When did I state this???? Seriously, show me proof that I've said this. I know how to judge intelligence though, but intelligence does not always equal logic or common sense. (Look at Tony Blair, he's one heck of an intelligent man, but his greed and arrogance blinded him of any common sense). I am not self-righteous either (that honor goes to you big time). I write my thoughts without sugar-coating them for the sake of any random person, that's NOT the sign of self-righteousness at all.

I think you just need to take a chill pill or a couple of chocolate martinis. You are way too sensitive and uptight. Not even my mother speaks in such a sanctimonious and preachy manner as you do ('respect adults' ha!)

Freza, so far you are the only person criticising my posting style, whereas you have received a flood of criticisms about the way you speak to people on here, and not just from me. You are consistently patronising and arrogant, and you do treat people like they know nothing if they don't agree with what you post.

Any time I have posted something critical aboutMiddle East politics or religion I have been jumped on, so what is the point? The only popular discussions around these parts are the anti-West ones.

So, please, all of you continue as you were.

In the end, if there is a war between West and Middle East, we'll see where the chips fall.

kanelli,

"Freza, so far you are the only person criticising my posting style, whereas you have received a flood of criticisms about the way you speak to people on here, and not just from me."
Nope, not necessarily true, but if it makes you happy to believe this half-truth, then be happy. And the "flood of criticism" that you talk about is from the predictable funny bunch, sweet.

"You are consistently patronising and arrogant, and you do treat people like they know nothing if they don't agree with what you post".
Nope, not true either. I don't treat people as if they know nothing, look at this thread or example, where is the evidence of your statement?

So I'm arrogant, whoop-dee-do. You're uptight, preachy and ungenuine. We all have our flaws...

"Any time I have posted something critical about Middle East politics or religion I have been jumped on, so what is the point? The only popular discussions around these parts are the anti-West ones."

Well..well... do you see the irony in this statement? Everytime I write an opinion that is critical of the US I get predictably jumped on by the likes of you and other drama queens. So? That hasn't stoped me. Don't let your fears stop you, write! Criticize Arab regimes, get if off your chest. And if I reply to your posts, I'll try to be as gentle as possible since I know how sensitive you and others here are... who knows, I might even agree with you!