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" Staying a virgin until the wedding night is a requirement for the Muslim who believes God in His book. The Quran teaches in a very clear way that the happiness in this life (and in the Hereafter) depends on following God's law (e.g. Quran) . "

Every day I see or I hear about this issue, I just make me feel sick! but before I start Asking I will give you an example. A fact happent in real life.

*- A girl meets up a guy in what ever way , with some one non-muslim for 2 or three months . one day you find her in his car and BANG! having sex with him and loosing her virginity!!

After few weeks that guy make any story and break up with her.

+ As a muslim girl,and she show off that she is a muslim and she always write about how her religos is making events , and then she does that , doesnt that make her a crap ? what is her title ?

+ Is she brainless or she watches many mexican movies ?

+ While she was learning islam , didnt she hear any thing about "ZINA" and what is she after losing it ?


* That was a story is a real one, from real life... like 100~ ones happens every day!


# What do you think that the girl thinking in while she is accepting doing it ?
# Her parents rised her all her life,provided the best education for her ,doest she think about what the people whom she and her family she is living around will look at her family
# When she marry, and her husbend find out she is no virgin ?
# How she face her god, she did "ZINA" ?

** I wish if you guys and girls share me your opinion about this, and how you look on this issue ?

As a non muslim, these issues are not relevant. It would be down to personal choice of the individual as too whether or not they had s$x before marriage.

Although its not fair to generalise, i would say however, it is near enough "the norm" nowadays.

However, it is really fair to focus on this issue in its singular context?. I am sure there are many male Muslims that have s$xual relations with other women outside of their marriage. It cuts both ways.

Although slightly off topic, what is the muslim stance on the same situation regarding males, ie: are they allowed to "play the field" before marriage?

Men and women should remain virgins until marriage. That is the Rule of God as per the Quran.

you missing out on so much fun liban, explains why you are angry

like that crap still happens.

like george michael said in the song "i want your sex"

'sex is natural sex is good, not everybody does it but everybody should'! those words ring so true to me.... and to liban's good friend Diana... for a price

i love how s.ex is turned to sex....i typed s.ex then not fun....that was fun not s.ex

i suggest she find a muslim man that has grown up in a house less strict with the muslim way of life, explain to him going into the relationship what has happened and hope for the best.

Well, I think men get away with it much more, after all guys are encouraged to go and 'sow their oats' before settling down, but women are not, it's such a double standard.

If a person is determine to stay a virgin until marriage then I think it's pretty commendable and people shouldn't frown on it.

I think some guys though have a weird fantasy about 'de-flowering' a woman.

It's sad that a woman would be viewed as used or unclean, but it's happens in many societies, cultures and religions, not just the Muslim one.

However, personally speaking, I could never commit myself to a guy unless I've taken him for a test drive! Who wants a life of crap s-e-x?

Chocoholic wrote:However, personally speaking, I could never commit myself to a guy unless I've taken him for a test drive! Who wants a life of crap s-e-x?

You could always view it as a WIP... have something to work at rather something that fizzles out

Either way, personally I find it counter productive to talk about your ex's. Not that you have anything to hide but you get into new relationships to start fresh and bringing up past lovers defeats that purpose.

MaaaD wrote:you missing out on so much fun liban, explains why you are angry

Lets see if that is going to be the same when u have daughters dude

My Question is:

Point out any religion which allow adultery (a relastionship between a man and a woman without marriage)

MaaaD wrote:you missing out on so much fun liban, explains why you are angry

OK, in that case, I'll make sure my son has hardcore s.e.x. with your daughter then.... That way they will not be missing out...

Liban wrote:

MaaaD wrote:you missing out on so much fun liban, explains why you are angry

OK, in that case, I'll make sure my son has hardcore s.e.x. with your daughter then.... That way they will not be missing out...

Yeah, but that might lead to offspring and marriage - so then you two would be related!

kanelli wrote:

Liban wrote:

MaaaD wrote:you missing out on so much fun liban, explains why you are angry

OK, in that case, I'll make sure my son has hardcore s.e.x. with your daughter then.... That way they will not be missing out...

Yeah, but that might lead to offspring and marriage - so then you two would be related!

i am not sure which is worse

My opinion is that it is none of anyone's business whether that Muslim girl lost her virginity to a non-Muslim guy she wasn't married to. If people believe in a god and that god forbids such actions, then just let god deal with it! He's the boss afterall...

I thoroughly agree with Liban on this one. The key word is abstinence.

I dont know nor understand what the point of coming up with such a subject Hiya ,,, as someone here said,,, its not your business ,,, i dont know if you are a muslim ,, but it seems like you are , ofcourse its forbiden for both males and females to have s.ex before marriage ,, everybody knows that ,,even the non-muslims ,, they know that about islam ,, but you know also ,, about MA'ASIYA ,, i dont see any way that any body can give his/her opinion about this topic ,,, you are talking about something that happens ,ok ,, its forbiden , ok ,,, so what do want ppl here to give their opinion about ??/?!!!!!!!!!!! you are not living a fully islamic society ,, i mean the LAW , if it was ,, i dont say that it wouldnt happen but it would have been more controled ,, OF COURSE , THROUGH THE TEACHINGS OF ISLAM , "NOT THROUGH VIOLANCE" !!!!!!!!!!! i will give an example ,, Drinking alcohol is forbiden in islam ,, can you justify why muslims sometimes drink ???? why there are nightclubs and bars in Dubai and other islamic places ????

and another thing ,, sorry to say it ,, i find it silly that you mention that "this girl" has played with a NON-MUSLIM ,,, i mean it shows a sense of that playing with a muslim is allowed !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

XRW-147 wrote:

Chocoholic wrote:However, personally speaking, I could never commit myself to a guy unless I've taken him for a test drive! Who wants a life of crap s-e-x?

You could always view it as a WIP... have something to work at rather something that fizzles out

Either way, personally I find it counter productive to talk about your ex's. Not that you have anything to hide but you get into new relationships to start fresh and bringing up past lovers defeats that purpose.

Who said anything about ex's? I don't get your point. Sometimes with a person you just have it in the bedroom, other times not! Sure it's something that can be worked on, but different people like different things. For many being compatible in that area is so important.

didn't read all the posts as i'm still at work, but as a quick reply


I never heard of a religion that sex before marriage is accpetable.

I mean in the rules of the religion, not the practice.

Is it ok for christians or jews???? don't think so, if someone got more knowledge please enlight us.

Choco, the second part of my post was not in relation to yours (its my 2 dhs worth for this topic), just the first line - hence seperated by the spacing. Sure I could have not been lazy and quoted another post to refer to but I figured hitting enter twice was easier.

Ah OK, sorry!

Yshimy, what about the issue that fewer and fewer people these days are getting married? With 1 in 3 marriages ending in divorce, people are making a commitement to one another without the 'piece of paper'!

I've argued it before I don't need a bit of paper and a ring to show I'm committed to someone or them to me. And with people putting careers first these days and relationships and family going on the back burner, you can't seriously expect people to wait for something which might never happen.

All religions teach the sanctity of marriage.

Religious people who remain celibate before getting married enter marriage with the purpose of spending the rest of their lives with their partner and forming a family. That is the goal of the relationship and the expectations are the same on both parts.

Where relationships aren't entered into with the goal of marriage or long-term committment, it does mean that there is opportunity for fun (I mean fun here), but this fun is at the expense of the good of society as a whole in my opinion.

Chocs last post above points to the breakdown of marriages etc. She seems to cite it as a reason against marriage. I would view this as a result of the loss of moral balance in societies today which has weakened the institution of the family as a goal in itself and in which s.ex is a commodity to be freely enjoyed with few limits.

Marriage (and most relationships for that matter) involve an element of sacrifice and compromise for it to work. If one party gets everything their own way, the other party invariably is compromising in some way - that can work, but usually both need to compromise.

I'm not talking about the bedroom - but generally in all aspects of life.

If s.ex is confined to marriage, men have to commit to sticking with a relationship. S.ex is a great motivator.. it will ensure that compatibility in all other areas is as good as can be before a relationship is entered into.. which is, in my opinion, a better system than what many of my colleagues and friends practice - blind dates, drunken encounters in parties etc.

Friends of my age that are still single now rely on introductions by friends, or friends of friends to try and hook them up with long term partners. People of my community don't have to wait until we are in our thirties to realise that is the best way to find peace and a soul mate - to be introduced to someone who is compatible and who is seeking broadly the same things as you are. The difference is that we avoid the dating game and enter into long term relationships from outset, with all the highs and lows that go along with this.

Human nature being what it is, relationships sometimes fail despite all the screening up front. This is natural. That is why Islam recognises that divorce is sometimes the lesser of two evils (and incidentally why Islam was vilified as being too liberal by Christianity when it insisted divorce, womens rights etc were against the will of God).

People can choose to sleep around before marriage. My experience is that it 'cheapens' the act and works to the detriment of women - how they are seen and how they see themselves. I have daughters and I am acutely aware of this aspect of modern society and it concerns parents of all religions. The saddest scene I see is pre-pubescant girls dressing like their older sisters and mums in very revealing attire - the 'trashy' look.

We don't hide this choice from our daughters, but just point out the difference between how these women and girls choose to dress and how the women and girls in our communities choose to dress. Our in-joke in the household is that in summer all the poor people of the west come out in the streets - they are so poor they can't afford clothes that cover their bodies..

To sum up, in my view society is better off if s.ex is confined to marriage.

Wasalaam,
Shafique

So you're saying that all thgose people who 'choose' not to get married, but still have life partners, can't enjoy themselves?

Shaf in today's society it isn't as black and white as that. And the clothes a women wears has absolutely nothing to do with the kind of person she is either, that's a sweeping generalisation.

I don't advocate sleeping around that's just stupid. But to say marriage is the be all and end all is not true. It's getting harder and harder for people to stay together in the world today, and you know what sometimes you just fall out of love, that can't be helped.

Excellent post Shaf. There is very little to find fault with what you say. However, it is a subject many of us will never agree on, and i think it is a subject that is very personal to ones own values.

Choco - let me define marriage in terms of my arguments. Marriage is a public committment that two people are exclusive. This covers 'common law' marriages, which is a union recognised in UK law.

(Edit -I also want to add that your point about it being harder to find a partner these days is, in my view, a consequence of the change in the view of what relationships are for.)

So, to answer your first question - a couple in a long term relationship can very well enjoy themselves. Many people choose not to get married and still enjoy themselves. My point was that if s.ex is confined to marriages then society as a whole has a greater respect for s.ex and society as a whole benefits.

I think it is sad that people can say that 'the clothes a woman wears has absolutely nothing to do with the kind of person she is either'. If you really believe this, then we must agree to disagree.

I believe that what anyone chooses to wear is part of how they choose to present themselves in public. I also believe it is a reflection of one's self esteem and what image one wants to project. Nuns, for example, choose to dress in a certain way and I would be very surprised to see any nun (of today and yesteryear) wearing a boob-tube, for example.

To stretch the point, would I be wrong to assume that a lady in a very short dress, fishnets, stillettos etc was NOT a nun?

I think it is ironic that modern day society has convinced women that to dress skimpily and revealingly is a way to express a woman's power and authority. Many men are thankful for this and appreciate these displays of women's 'authority'!

People are free to dress as they wish and to dress their kids as they see fit. We choose to be more like the West of 100 years ago where women covered up rather than subscribe to what many see as the body fascism of today where nothing is left to the imagination..

But we're a bit out of topic here - Choco, you don't advocate complete abandonment in who people sleep with - you say that would be daft. Therefore we agree that there should be some restraint and control. We therefore are merely disagreeing on the extent of the restraint - I say it it should be left to relationships where there is a good chance of a long term relationship. Marriage is a good way to ensure this.

Finally, I hope I don't come across as chauvinistic - whilst being as red-blooded as the next man, I am fortunate to have strong women in my life and I'm bringing up two daughters to be as independent thinking as free in choice as their mother. We have certain values that we live by and they can see and emulate when they get older. In the meantime, we all live by the rules of Islam until they are old enough to make their independent choices.

What I can see is that children are impressionable and will mimic elders and will take their cues about how to view themselves and others from their parents - if they think it is ok to bare flesh, that its ok to have a series of monogamous relationships before hopefully finding a soul mate etc, then that is what they will believe.

The question is whether this makes people happier over all than the other set of beliefs. Divorces and children of divorcees are hardly ever very happy. In my view, the erosion of family values has led to a society from long-term happiness to short-term gratifications and long-term heartaches.

As always, just my opinion.

Wasalaam
Shafique

Oh, Arnie you know me I wash jush taking the pith !! I love how nobody attacked the old lady!! A contentious subject. I'd like to know Diana's views on the subject.

GAB wrote:Oh, Arnie you know me I wash jush taking the pith !! I love how nobody attacked the old lady!! A contentious subject. I'd like to know Diana's views on the subject.

Gabs, Will you stop the pith, wudolf du wednose weindeer, woger and woderick references please - i am trying to contain myself


Shaf you old dog

"assume that a lady in a very short dress, fishnets, stillettos etc was NOT a nun?


mmmmmmmmm this sound a very interesting variation me thinks

Well, there are still women out there who don't fall for all the sex hype in the media, and who have few or only one partner their whole lives. They get teased because they aren't outwardly sexy and were/are still virgins for a long time. It is great if parents can raise girls to withstand the temptations by making them aware of the negative consequences of sleeping around. Ultimately, the kids will have to make their own choices though.

As for clothing, that is still rather subjective. I think that covering up too much is restrictive in warm weather, and I think that having the sun and air on one's skin is wonderful. However, a strappy low-necked midrif top paired with a mini-skirt is a pretty tarty combination. Many of the see-through and neckline-to-the-belly button dresses on the Music Award shows are also sleazy looking. Finally, what is incredible to me is that some shops for young girls sell thong undies and sexy pyjamas! What little girl needs to avoid visible panty-line, and what little girl needs to feel "sexy" when she crawls into bed with her teddy bear and asks mummy to leave the night-light on!

MaaaD wrote:

kanelli wrote:

Liban wrote:

MaaaD wrote:you missing out on so much fun liban, explains why you are angry

OK, in that case, I'll make sure my son has hardcore s.e.x. with your daughter then.... That way they will not be missing out...

Yeah, but that might lead to offspring and marriage - so then you two would be related!

i am not sure which is worse

Being related.

kanelli wrote:My opinion is that it is none of anyone's business whether that Muslim girl lost her virginity to a non-Muslim guy she wasn't married to. If people believe in a god and that god forbids such actions, then just let god deal with it! He's the boss afterall...

I am very very scared right now...

I find myself agreeing with Kanelli... May God Help me!!!