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The Quran, in many citations, portrays Satan or Iblis as an angel:

And (remember) when We said to the angels: "Prostrate yourselves before Adam." And they prostrated except Iblis (Satan), he refused and was proud and was one of the disbelievers (disobedient to Allah). S. 2:34

And (remember) when your Lord said to the angels: "I am going to create a man (Adam) from sounding clay of altered black smooth mud. So, when I have fashioned him completely and breathed into him (Adam) the soul which I created for him, then fall (you) down prostrating yourselves unto him." So, the angels prostrated themselves, all of them together. Except Iblis (Satan), - he refused to be among the prostrators. S. 15:28-31

And (remember) when We said to the angels: "Prostrate yourselves to Adam." They prostrated (all) except Iblis (Satan), who refused. S. 20:116

(Remember) when your Lord said to the angels: "Truly, I am going to create man from clay". So when I have fashioned him and breathed into him (his) soul created by Me, then you fall down prostrate to him." So the angels prostrated themselves, all of them: Except Iblis (Satan) he was proud and was one of the disbelievers. S. 38:71-74

The natural reading of the above texts is to see Satan as an angel who refused to obey Allah’s order to worship Adam. The following passage brings out this point even more clearly:

And surely, We created you (your father Adam) and then gave you shape (the noble shape of a human being), then We told the angels, "Prostrate to Adam", and they prostrated, except Iblis (Satan), he refused to be of those who prostrate. (Allah) said: "What prevented you (O Iblis) that you did not prostrate, when I commanded you?" Iblis said: "I am better than him (Adam), You created me from fire, and him You created from clay." S. 7:11-12

Allah asks Iblis why he didn’t obey his instruction to the angels to prostrate to Adam, which presupposes that he was one of the angels. The text does not say that Allah commanded some other group along with the angels to worship Adam, and therefore makes no sense for Allah to hold Iblis accountable for not obeying a command that was given to them if he wasn’t an angel.

Yet the Quran introduces a discrepancy by identifying Iblis as a jinn:

And (remember) when We said to the angels; "Prostrate to Adam." So they prostrated except Iblis (Satan). He was one of the jinns; he disobeyed the Command of his Lord. Will you then take him (Iblis) and his offspring as protectors and helpers rather than Me while they are enemies to you? What an evil is the exchange for the Zalimun (polytheists, and wrong-doers, etc). S. 18:50

Thus, this either means that:

* Satan is an angel and therefore not a jinn.
* Or he is a jinn and therefore not an angel, which makes Allah unjust for blaming him for not obeying a command given to the angels and not to the jinn.
* Or the jinn are angels which introduces another contradiction as we will demonstrate shortly....

uaehop wrote:BORING !

Try this instead

http://failblog.org/2011/12/23/epic-fai ... rica-fail/

Arabic Rule Of Tagleeb The English translation of the first part of the verse ‘We said to the angels bow down to Adam: they bowed down except Iblis’, gives us the impression that Iblis was an angel. The Qur’an was revealed in Arabic. In Arabic grammar there is a rule known as Tagleeb, according to which, if the majority is addressed, even the minority is included. If for example, I address a class containing 100 students of whom 99 are boys and one is a girl, and if I say in Arabic that the boys should stand up, it includes the girl as well. I need not mention her seperately.Similarly in the Qur’an, when Allah addressed the angels, even Iblis was present, but it is not required that he be mentioned separately. Therefore according to that sentence Iblis may be an angel or may not be an angel, but we come to know from Surah Al Kahf chapter 18 verse 50 that Iblis was a Jinn. No where does the Qur’an say Iblis was an angel. Therefore there is no contradiction in the Qur’an.

Jinns have free will and can disobey Allah Secondly, Jinns have a free will and may or may not obey Allah, but angels have no free will and always obey Allah. Therefore the question of an angel disobeying Allah does not arise. This further supplements that Iblis was a Jinn and not an angel.

You could easily have looked this up if you had read a commentary, rather than relying on your usual blogger sources

Another attempt of explaining away the discrepancy is to appeal to the rules of Arabic grammar, which is what this next Muslim tries to do:

2. Arabic Rule Of Tagleeb

The English translation of the first part of the verse ‘We said to the angels bow down to Adam: they bowed down except Iblis’, gives us the impression that Iblis was an angel. The Qur’an was revealed in Arabic. In Arabic grammar there is a rule known as Tagleeb, according to which, if the majority is addressed, even the minority is included. If for example, I address a class containing 100 students of whom 99 are boys and one is a girl, and if I say in Arabic that the boys should stand up, it includes the girl as well. I need not mention her seperately.

Similarly in the Qur’an, when Allah addressed the angels, even Iblis was present, but it is not required that he be mentioned separately. Therefore according to that sentence Iblis may be an angel or may not be an angel, but we come to know from Surah Al Kahf chapter 18 verse 50 that Iblis was a Jinn. No where does the Qur’an say Iblis was an angel. Therefore there is no contradiction in the Qur’an. (Dr. Zakir Naik, Most Common Questions asked by Non-Muslims who have some knowledge of Islam; source)

To show why this ad hoc explanation is rather forced and very weak, let us take his same analogy and change it a bit. If for example, I address the same class containing 100 students of whom 99 are boys and one is a girl, and it so happens that there are parents also present with their children, and I say in Arabic that all the boys should stand up and yet none of the parents stand, I cannot legitimately hold them liable since I wasn't addressing them directly. Let us also assume that at this class, both the principal and the vice-principal were present and didn't stand up after having told the boys to rise from their seats. Could I legitimately hold them accountable for failing to comply with my orders? Of course not, since they do not fall under the category of boys, nor do they come under the category of classmates. If I wanted both the parents and school officials to stand up I would need to mention them specifically.

It is obvious that the girl in Naik's analogy falls under the same general category of classmates and children, so a reference to boys can include her since the term boys wouldn't be gender specific in this case. (But even that would have to be gleaned from the context in which the word is being used since you may have a class which is made up of entirely boys). The mention of boys in this context would be a general statement referring to a group consisting of young children and schoolmates. The term would therefore include all the persons which would fall under that category, irrespective of gender.

Hence, the only way Naik’s example could serve as a valid analogy is if we were to take for granted that Iblis belongs to the same category of angels. But arguing this way leaves us with the problem of Iblis disobeying Allah when the Quran says that angels are never disobedient.

Also, there are situations where only part of the class is supposed to stand up. Just imagine there are 30 boys and ten girls in a class. The teacher says that all the boys should stand up. Does he mean all the pupils then? Or could it be that he meant really only the boys and not the girls? E.g. because the boys should then leave the room to attend auto mechanic class to learn how to repair cars while the girls remain in the room for learning knitting, or something of that nature. Thus, it isn’t the rule, really, but the context that determines the meaning.

Now had the Quran simply said that Allah commanded the heavenly beings, or the inhabitants of heaven to worship Adam then that would have been a different story. One could argue that the reference to heavenly inhabitants would most likely include Iblis, presuming of course that he originally was a heavenly creature.

To help further drive this point home here is another illustration: Suppose in heaven there had been angels, men and animals present when Allah chose to single out one man, Adam, for special honor and blessing. Suppose Allah had commanded that all the angels should bow down before Adam, which they do, but none of the humans or animals do so. Could Allah blame them for failing to bow before Adam despite the fact that he never specifically singled any of these other groups out? The obvious answer is, of course not.

As it stands, Naik's argument is pretty weak and quite unconvincing. Dr. Naik is simply committing the fallacy of false analogy at this point.

And (remember) when We said to the angels; "Prostrate to Adam." So they prostrated except Iblis (Satan). He was one of the jinns; he disobeyed the Command of his Lord.

God says Iblis is a Jinn.

So the angels prostrated themselves, all of them: Except Iblis (Satan) he was proud and was one of the disbelievers. S. 38:73-74

So the angels prostrated themselves, all of them: Except Iblis (Satan)

You want to believe this 'Islamophobic blogger only' theory - go ahead.

he just thinks it is a weak argument.

Now - how about you address the real issues of the Bible you've been studiously avoiding?

God says Iblis was a Jinn - Muslims believe in what God says.

If your blogger wish to write long refutations of the explanation - so be it, he's free to disagree. A random blogger* is not an authority on Arabic grammar - just someone who seems to have invented a weak argument. However, we see yet again another case of Islamophobic bloggers inventing an argument and a contradiction that just isn't there in the Arabic Quran.

Sam is just a random Islamophobic blogger

Fail. Again.

shafique wrote:I want you to find one expert or a Muslim that agrees with Sam's theory that there is a contradiction in the Quran on this subject.

DFT wrote:Why do you need an expert? Can't you read the quran and see for yourself if there is a contradiction or not?

Nucleus wrote:That red part doesn't even make sense.

The Arabic in verse 18:50 could be translated as he was a jinn or it could be translated as he became a jinn. The following translation of the Arabic verse 18:50 stating that Satan became a jinn, however, is the correct understanding for reasons stated below... It can be understood that Satan became disobedient and therefore no longer an angel through looking at other verses as well as this one rather than coming to a conclusion using only this verse. We should not take the scripture partially... First, God spoke specifically to the angels, not the angels and the jinns... Second, God issued the command to fall prostrate to the angels; and the angels fell prostrate, all of them, except Satan. Some Islamic "scholars" argue about the use of the Arabic word "illah" (except), but it is just a distraction from the fact that God is clearly speaking to and giving the command to angels... Third, There is no mistaking that Satan has fallen, God tells us Satan is in his act of rebellion, which is followed by his banishment... Lastly, the Islamic "scholars" claim that angels are made of light, but nowhere in the Quran does it say what angels are made of. Since there are no inconsistencies or contradictions in the Quran and it is perfect (16:103,18:2, 26:195), complete (6:115, 41:3), and fully detailed (6:114, 7:52, 10:37), we can conclude that the confusion is caused by the contradicting Hadith. (Source)

Either try and find one expert that agrees with Sam or accept that it is only Islamophobic bloggers that get things this wrong.

First, God spoke specifically to the angels, not the angels and the jinns... Second, God issued the command to fall prostrate to the angels; and the angels fell prostrate, all of them, except Satan. Some Islamic "scholars" argue about the use of the Arabic word "illah" (except), but it is just a distraction from the fact that God is clearly speaking to and giving the command to angels...

God says Iblis was a Jinn, and there's absolutely no confusion in anyone's mind on this.