Koran And Science

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Re: Koran And Science Aug 06, 2010
Berrin, I have a simple test when it comes to making a choice between a rational explanation and one that requires us to believe God suspended the laws of nature, I choose the rational one every time.

Here's a reference from the web giving a rational explanation of Al Naml v 18:
http://www.alquran-karim.com/anNaml.html#2157

Cheers,
Shafique

shafique
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Re: Koran and Science Aug 06, 2010
Ah, I see that the website you linked to links to books about the Koran written by your friend, Rashad Kalifa (who may have been assassinated by radical Muslims).

Yeah, definitely mainstream.
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Re: Koran And Science Aug 06, 2010
shafique wrote:Berrin, I have a simple test when it comes to making a choice between a rational explanation and one that requires us to believe God suspended the laws of nature, I choose the rational one every time.


Shafique, brother..God confirms that he is the owner of miracles and that they are no cheats and that they were not meant to break the laws of nature..
I am sure you know that Prophet Mohammad’s opponents demanded miracles too , such as those performed by previous prophets, but the quran stated clearly that such miracles would not be forthcoming.

And We refrain from sending the signs, only because the men of former generations treated them as false: We sent the she-camel to the Thamud to open their eyes, but they treated her wrongfully: We only send the Signs by way of terror (and warning from evil). (17:59)

God even had this to say to the Prophet:

If you find their aversion hard to bear (and would like to show them a miracle), seek if you can a tunnel in the ground or ladder to the sky by which you may bring them a sign. Had God pleased, He would have given them guidance, one and all. Do not be ignorant then. (6:35)

Instead, the revealed Book of God was made into the Prophet’s miracle:

They ask: ‘Why are not signs sent down upon him from his Lord?’
Say: ‘The signs are only with Allah, and I am only a plain warner.’ Is it not enough for them that we have sent down to thee the Book which is rehearsed to them? Verily, in it is Mercy and a Reminder to those who believe. (Qur’an, 29:50-51)


Here's a reference from the web giving a rational explanation of Al Naml v 18:
http://www.alquran-karim.com/anNaml.html#2157


This is a deviant site,it is un-islamic in the sense that they too are sceptical and reject God’s miracles therefore the language they used for interpretation of Arabic texts reads irrational and inconsistent compared to the mainstream translations of the quran.

ie. Despite they translate that Solomon had battalion of birds as his army and hudhud being the name of one of the birds, they will go on and strangely deny this in their Tafsir claiming that hudhud wasn’t actually a bird and that it wasn’t the birds language that Solomon could understand.

On the other hand in Surat Al- Fil (105) they reluctantly accept that the Ababil birds were the miracle armies of the God! Still they were ashamed to translate that ababil birds were striking with hard stones of clay from heights but instead eating the dead bodies, striking them against stones of clay…..Very very strange…..

Regarding the ants Shafique, I found on this site that the ants make acoustic communication through the air with wavelengths they generate. So it wouldn’t surprise me if prophet solomon received wavelengths to understand the language of ants from far, as he was to use and control the wind by the will of God (21:81)
http://scitation.aip.org/getabs/servlet ... ypassSSO=1
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Re: Koran And Science Aug 07, 2010
Berrin, I do believe in miracles - absolutely.

However, I don't believe God would break His own laws of nature to perform them - I think He would have planned to be able to show miracles without having to stop the earth rotating for a day like eh believes.

Allah also says the Quran contains metaphorical verses. Tafsir's and respected scholars have written about what a 'bird' means in terms of metaphor when applied to descriptions of men. In fact it is a common use even to this day.

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Shafique
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Re: Koran And Science Aug 08, 2010
shafique wrote:Berrin, I do believe in miracles - absolutely.
However, I don't believe God would break His own laws of nature to perform them

Well that’s exactly why I said that miracles are not meant to break natural laws and that they only happen because God wills them so..At the end of the day he is Al-Muqtadir and Al-Qawiyy..for anything and everthing for any moment to happen.

I think He would have planned to be able to show miracles without having to stop the earth rotating for a day like eh believes.

Eh is prepared to believe in anything as long as he can wrestle with the God of islam. :evil:

Miracles are only miracles when humans can experience/witness them live(when they have no control over the outcome), otherwise they are subject to proof/performance via natural laws.

having “the power” to stop rotating the earth for a day is one thing, having “the will” to show his servants that he can stop the earth to rotate for a day is another thing. In this case it cannot be a miracle for humans since it couldn’t have been witnessed through bare human eyes and senses, otherwise to claim it to happen or happened is subject to natural laws for evidence.. This is why I think it cannot be a miracle.. even today if God willed to stop rotating the earth for a day, we couldn’t have possibly felt it unless we were reported it, as being extraordinary through the visual and scientific evidences provided by the astronomers..

Allah also says the Quran contains metaphorical verses. Tafsir's and respected scholars have written about what a 'bird' means in terms of metaphor when applied to descriptions of men. In fact it is a common use even to this day.

Yes I agree that there are words which have both metaphorical and ambiguous meanings,as explained here..
http://muslim-canada.org/quran_interpretation.html

I accept that as a proof of God, quran has dynamic verses to be interpreted by new generations to come, so what we understood as metaphoric word in the past, can be as clear as its literal meaning today… as in this example…
http://miraclesofthequran.net/scientific_30.html

In centuries to come, there will be many new discoveries both social/scientific to help us understand why certain things described using certain patterns of worlds and styles. But when our understanding is limited and without evidential proof, then I much rather stick to the mainstream authorised translation of the quran. Otherwise I feel that people just cease to care about it, as there would be utter confusion, not knowing which one to believe.
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Re: Koran And Science Aug 09, 2010
Ah, we seem to have let off young eh from answering the question posed to him about talking donkeys.

But let us remind him of the question.

shafique wrote:I am indeed ignoring your chosen interpretation - and waiting for ANY evidence that the verses don't apply to a villager called Al Naml. Should you come across this evidence, let us know.

Now, do you believe in talking Donkeys as described in the Bible - as some Christians do, or do you side with the rational Christians who seek a non-literal interpretation? Which set of Christians is wrong?

Cheers,
Shafique
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Re: Koran and Science Aug 14, 2010
Berrin has already shown that the Biblical passage is fully compatible with science.

Now, do you have a non-Qadiani commentary/website that agrees with your nonsense interpretation ?
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