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shafique · Oct 05, 2009

So, are you one of those who takes the Bible literally and believe Noah lived to 950 years? (Or do you agree with me that this Biblical verse is metaphorical?)

Not sure why you're over-looking this question.

As for whether the Quranic verses are metaphorical or not - I view them as metaphorical, others may have a different view. Both verses are 'historical' verses of the Quran, and as God says in the Quran:

“He it is Who has sent down to thee the Book, of it there are decisive verses: they are the basis of the Book and others (which are) ambiguous. But those in whose hearts is perversity pursue, forsooth, that which is ambiguous, seeking to cause mischief and seeking to explain it (as they like).”(3:7)

Let me ask again - are you one of those who believes Noah lived to 950 because the Bible says so?

Cheers,
Shafique

event horizon · Oct 05, 2009

Interesting that you want to change the subject.

Can I assume you don't have any valid reason to claim these passages are metaphors?

shafique · Oct 05, 2009

So, asking whether you believe Noah lived to 950 as the Bible and Quran literally say is 'changing the subject'?

I've stated I believe both are metaphorical, and that they can (and are) taken literally by others. My reasons are valid to me.

So, what is your view on what the Bible (and Quran) says on the subject? What are your reasons for your view (I assume you have a view)?

Cheers,
Shafique

event horizon · Oct 05, 2009

I agree that the Koran says that Noah lived over 950 years old and I also agree that the Koran says the moon was split - which confirms a historical account from an Indian king, don't you?

I've already addressed the ages of the patriarchs in the Bible before. I'm not sure why you're dwelling on this issue when, historically, Jews and Christians have never interpreted the Bible literally as Muslims seem to think they have.

The Koran, on the other hand, is to be interpreted literally and I can see no reason why the Koran would lie when it says that Noah was over 950 years of age or that Allah split the moon as a sign for the unbelievers during Muhammad's life time.

shafique · Oct 05, 2009

So your view is that the Quran is to be interpreted literally.

Hmm.

So, how do you 'literally' interpret the Quranic verse which says it contains metaphorical verses?:

“He it is Who has sent down to thee the Book, of it there are decisive verses: they are the basis of the Book and others (which are) ambiguous. But those in whose hearts is perversity pursue, forsooth, that which is ambiguous, seeking to cause mischief and seeking to explain it (as they like).”(3:7)

It hasn't escaped my notice that you haven't confirmed whether you agree or disagree with my interpretation of the Biblical and Quranic verses which say Noah lived to 950 years old.

Why are you avoiding this question?

Cheers,
Shafique

Berrin · Oct 05, 2009

Well Arabic and English isn’t my native language..so I read the verse in my language…
After reading this verse (29-14) I thought it was not clear about when he started receiving revelations from god therefore the start of his prophethood during this 1000 year period…
It’s also not clear after how many years of his prophethood this deluge had taken place and how many years after the deluge- surviving believers continued to preach Nouh’s revelations in integrity before loosing originality and start fabrication…
All these points I mention makes it rather ambiguous verse and difficult to asses his true age when he deid..

Of course he may have died at the age of 950 if that’s what God wanted… we already know that first humans on earth were living much much longer to allow population to increase….

Nevertheless it seems as though Noah’s reign under his messages lasted for 950 years before another prophet was assigned as a messenger with new revelations to invite people back to believing truth and a creator God…

shafique · Oct 05, 2009

Thanks Berrin - it is always useful to get a perspective from another translation.

This verse is interpreted literally by some Muslims - that Noah dwelt among his people for 1000 less 50 years (some interpreting this as Noah living to age 1000, assuming he started receiving revelations at age 50).

What further complicates matters is that some Muslims refer to the Bible which gives Noah's death at age 950 and that he lived for 350 years after the flood:

Genesis 9:28-29 (King James Version)
28And Noah lived after the flood three hundred and fifty years.
29And all the days of Noah were nine hundred and fifty years: and he died

(This would make Noah 600 at the time of the flood, at a time when both his wife and son were alive... which is a little incredible, to me at least)

'eh' started this thread and apparently appears to have been unaware that the Bible also gives Noah's age at death at 950. Interesting that - and we await his interpretation of this fact.

Cheers,
Shafique

event horizon · Oct 05, 2009

I agree that the Koran clearly says that Noah lived among his people for nearly one thousand years. Why would someone not interpret this passage literally?

Now, what about the passage of the cavemen dwelling in a cave for 300 plus years? Do you disagree that the Koran says this?

shafique · Oct 06, 2009

Well it makes a change for you to acknowledge the bleeding obvious after you posted it.

It does appear strange that you seemed unaware that the Bible also gives Noah's age at 950 and that you now refuse to give your interpretation of this fact.

Let me quote Jesus:

You hypocrite! First remove the beam from your own eye, and then you will see clearly enough to remove the speck from your brother's eye."

Matt 7:5

(If the reference is unclear to you, just Google it)

Cheers,
Shafique

event horizon · Oct 06, 2009

The splitting of the moon (Arabic: انشقاق القمر‎) is a claimed miracle done by the prophet Muhammad in Islamic tradition.[2] The incident is mentioned in many early Muslim traditions as the context of revelation (asbāb an-nuzūl) for the Qur'anic verse 54:1-2 and virtually all Muslim commentators accept the historicity of the miracle. These early traditions are transmitted on the authority of companions of Muhammad such as Ibn Abbas, Anas bin Malik, Abdullah bin Masud and others.[3][4] According to the Indian Muslim scholar Yusuf Ali, the moon might split again when the day of judgment approaches. He says that the verse may also have an allegorical meaning, i.e. the matter has become clear as the moon.[5][6] The Qur'anic verse 54:1-2 was part of the debate between medieval Muslim theologians and Muslim philosophers over the issue of the inviolability of heavenly bodies. Philosophers held that the heavenly bodies could not be pierced because unlike the terrestrial matter, they were not composed of the four fundamental elements of earth, air, fire, and water.[7] Some other rationalistic Muslim thinkers had difficulties accepting any preternatural event, and sometimes argued that only an appearance of the split of the moon had happened.[8]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Splitting_of_the_moon

Let's not forget that history also attests to the moon splitting.

So, clearly this verse is not a metaphor.

shafique · Oct 06, 2009

Strange that you would wish to change the subject when I asked whether you were aware that the Bible gave Noah's age at 950 and whether you agreed with it (literally)?

I understand you wish to avoid questions and I am always amused at the excuses you sometimes give (but mostly you just remain silent).

This thread is about Noah's age in scripture, isn't it?

Cheers,
Shafique

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How Old Was Noah - According To The Koran?

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