Will Egypt Follow Tunisia?

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Re: Will Egypt Follow Tunisia? Jan 29, 2011
There is no way that the army will turn on the people - I imagine they hold the same sympathies... Mubarak will not be able to hold on and he looks completely foolish with his speech and his dismissal of the cabinet. "Out Mubarak" is a pretty clear message but he doesn't seem to get it!

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Re: Will Egypt follow Tunisia? Jan 29, 2011
shafique wrote:Loonwatch have created a page on the protests with some interesting info on it - including the US view of Mubarak as well as a loon blogger's take on democracy and Muslims :roll: :
http://www.loonwatch.com/2011/01/loonwa ... -in-egypt/

Cheers,
Shafique

It exposes quite clearly the hypocrisy and double standards of many in the West who give zero credit to the Arab and Muslim peoples, it also exposes their close link and dealings with decadent despotic regimes. We can’t help but notice the difference between the reaction to protests in Iran and these protests, can it be that denunciations are affected by how friendly or adverse one is to the regime in question?


Westerners hypocrisy also showed through when they were quick to give full support to the leaders of colour revolutions in ex sattalites of Russia such as Ukraine...But the game was over when Puttin sorted them out..

If Americans gave half the support they gave to Ukranian revolution, Mubarak would have long left by now...
His Military general was in USA yesterday, if the general too was given a go ahead to topple mubarak, he couldn't have made that useless speech. It's really heart breaking, the prime ministers cabinet will be tried to scapegoat for all the troubles..But in reality under mubaraks regime no matter how many cabinets comes and goes nothing will change..I hope people woun't loose momentum and will continue to fight until Mubarak goes...

-- Sat Jan 29, 2011 1:22 pm --

There is no way that the army will turn on the people -


If the army is a slave of foreign delegation to protect secularism and all the international accords and treaties that restricts the right of citizens to be conclusive in decision taking process than yes they will work against the citizens will and interests...

I follow the newspapers,Turkish nation have gone through the same dilemma when people voted for a party that majority of its members were practising muslims whom were considered a threat to the secular regime in the country, when infact the only concern of the members of this party was to transform the country and its people for further economic and civil development..

Sledgehammer mentions a systematic plan by the Turkish Armed Forces (TSK) to create chaos in society by bombing mosques and attacking popular museums with Molotov cocktails. The desired result was to increase pressure on the Justice and Development Party (AK Party) government following the government’s apparent failure to provide security to its citizens. The attacks were to eventually lead to a military coup.

The plan belonged to the War Academy Command and was drawn up in 2003. It is believed to be part of the Sledgehammer coup plan.

According to the plan Parliament would be forced to accept the fact that the trend of reactionaryism is on the rise, which presents a threat Atatürk’s principles and Turkey’s secular order. “Heavy responsibility falls on the armed forces for the protection of the republic, established by Atatürk. The War Academy Command will be fulfilling its responsibilities,” the plan read.

The document also said the command needed the support of Parliament for a declaration of martial law and that deputies would be forced to declare it.

http://www.todayszaman.com/news-233181- ... -coup.html
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Re: Will Egypt follow Tunisia? Jan 29, 2011
In my view, Tunisia and Egypt were the first but not last victims of the World crisis. It must have been Greece or if EU had not granted the financial support. There are a lot of countries in the World, which cannot find own place between China and the West and don't have enough natural resources to survive in hard days.

On the other hand uncontroled birth rate makes it impossible to avoid hunger without import of food. Wise Den Xiaoping recognized self-sufficiency of food and moved in the both direction at the beginning of his reforms.
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Re: Will Egypt follow Tunisia? Jan 29, 2011
There are a lot of countries in the World, which cannot find own place between China and the West and don't have enough natural resources to survive in hard days.


Believe it or not..Many countries who are subdued are actually rich in resources but somehow the war lords (that's what a call them), actually the lords of the world economic system will not allow all nations to utilise their resources at once, or at the same time...There is some sort of categorising, it's through meetings such as Davos that they get together and decide which nations is allowed for what scientific or economic know how and develeopment..Anyone who breaks the rules and decisions taken will be slaved through the lords of the financial system which run by almost the same people....
They even categorise which nations will take off to be developed and which nations will be repressed to slown down and continue to slave.
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Re: Will Egypt follow Tunisia? Jan 29, 2011
Berrin wrote:
There are a lot of countries in the World, which cannot find own place between China and the West and don't have enough natural resources to survive in hard days.


Believe it or not..Many countries who are subdued are actually rich in resources but somehow the war lords (that's what a call them),


can't agree anymore, and i would like to add it is not about resources only, it is about who leads the country...
as my case is Egypt not, can you compare the resources Egypt has, with the resources any country in Europe has?

Resources of Egypt and resources of Japan?
but who takes the lead makes the difference...

i could be wrong, but learning from discussions...
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Re: Will Egypt follow Tunisia? Jan 29, 2011
Berrin wrote: Believe it or not..Many countries who are subdued are actually rich in resources but somehow the war lords (that's what a call them), actually the lords of the world economic system will not allow all nations to utilise their resources at once, or at the same time...There is some sort of categorising, it's through meetings such as Davos that they get together and decide which nations is allowed for what scientific or economic know how and develeopment..Anyone who breaks the rules and decisions taken will be slaved through the lords of the financial system which run by almost the same people....

Berrin, you always take the position of victim too easily but there is a good experience of China itself. There were no a hidden plan to rise so big rival which China is now at the end of 70s. It's the merit of the Comunist Party and its leader Den, not the foreign office of US and the first goal China reached under his leadership was food indepandance.
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Re: Will Egypt Follow Tunisia? Jan 29, 2011
Interesting development with today's protest.. Police and undercover police are off the street. I think the army is sitting on the fence.

I am filled with mixed emotions watching the vids. On the one hand, excited for the people, on the other hand, sad because I've been to most of the places in Cairo where the protests are taking place. Fond memories, long walks with hubby and family. When it calms down hope to make a visit to family. Family is safe, alhamdilillah.

It's reported 35 dead (some of who were police). :cry:
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Re: Will Egypt follow Tunisia? Jan 29, 2011
can't agree anymore, and i would like to add it is not about resources only, it is about who leads the country...


Of course...Have you notice the government/administration styles of the countries of the muslim ME..
The closer the muslim nations to Europe (christian Europe) the less they are allowed to be ruled under sharia and the further they are away from christian Europe the more they are allowed to be ruled under sharia (islam)...This was arranged to stay like this after ottoman empire was dismantled..
For those muslim nations neighbouring Europe, Democracy was meant to be nothing other than rooting secularism to weaken power of the religion and peoples sense of belonging to a religious nation in order to avoid sharia expanding into Europe as it was in the middle ages...

In reality it makes no difference if they are democracies or sharia countries..Couse Ever since Nato and America took world power,Muslims are being slaved in so called democratic nations with military backed dictators, and in sharia countries through military backed kings..(of course both kings and dictators meant to stay in power as long as they could last and serve their interests)..

In democracy ruled muslim nations there is no way they would allow hamas and hizbullah like islamic parties be in power..Are you watching lebanon?..Hizbullah was given authority to form government by the president, soon after that America/Nato and Israel were quick to condemn the decision and said they were going to fight against Hizbullah...A´$$oles

-- Sat Jan 29, 2011 3:47 pm --

Berrin, you always take the position of victim too easily but there is a good experience of China itself. There were no a hidden plan to rise so big rival which China is now at the end of 70s. It's the merit of the Comunist Party and its leader Den, not the foreign office of US and the first goal China reached under his leadership was food indepandance.


Didn't quite understand what you meant here...

On the other hand uncontroled birth rate makes it impossible to avoid hunger without import of food. Wise Den Xiaoping recognized self-sufficiency of food and moved in the both direction at the beginning of his reforms.

If we don't stop living on interest(without risk) on capital rather than investing it and if we don't avoid usury and speculation to slave investors and borrowers than the whole world financial system will continue to suffer..
Current crises has nothing to do with increasing birth rates but has a lot to do with the imbalance of world developement from one corner to the other..A good governing country should be able to implement agricultural policies to handle its increasing population unless it is stoped by the world powers of course..
i.e exporting agricultural lords..
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Re: Will Egypt Follow Tunisia? Jan 29, 2011
ATTENTION!!!!!

PHOTO OF HOSNI MUBARAK SEEN TRYING TO SNEAK OUT OF EGYPT!!!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ALDUd8OD ... re=related
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Re: Will Egypt follow Tunisia? Jan 29, 2011
:lol:

On a more serious note, I see that now over 50 people have been killed.

I hope that the people get their wish and have a peaceful 'people's revolution'. It could go either way, but I continue to hope for the best.

Cheers,
Shafique
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Re: Will Egypt follow Tunisia? Jan 29, 2011
How an idot this Mubarak is, instead of assigning a civilian opposition leader to form goverment, he goes and choose an "ex army commander" to be a prime minister... Dear oh dear...
I think he feels he need extra protection.. LOL...

Go egypt go.. don't ever stop until you drive Mubarak and his family out of the country..
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Re: Will Egypt follow Tunisia? Jan 29, 2011
Now Egyptians are destroying their own heritage. :o
http://news.yahoo.com/s/nm/20110129/sc_ ... -container
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Re: Will Egypt follow Tunisia? Jan 30, 2011
Very disappointing.

Many Muslims often ignore their history in favor of Islamic culture, viewing the ancients as living in an age of ignorance.

This is prevalent in Pakistan where the history of the people starts when the Muslim armies first arrived - anything before that is overlooked.
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Re: Will Egypt Follow Tunisia? Jan 30, 2011
^^^^
Another one trick pony. Image
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Re: Will Egypt follow Tunisia? Jan 30, 2011
event horizon wrote:Very disappointing.

Many Muslims often ignore their history in favor of Islamic culture, viewing the ancients as living in an age of ignorance.

This is prevalent in Pakistan where the history of the people starts when the Muslim armies first arrived - anything before that is overlooked.


Mummies and Pyrammids are not of islamic culture, these egyptians could not care less for mummies in a museum, their heritage is prophet muhammad and islam, nothing else. Same happened in afghanisthan when they blew up the Buddha statue carved in the mountains.
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Re: Will Egypt Follow Tunisia? Jan 30, 2011
suddenly everyone is an expert with ME, Muslims, and Egyptians matters...

whats happening in Egypt now is beyond any expectations, and the dead are over 100 as in news but i think its higher than that.. and there is news about 1000s of prisoners escaped from jails... so i think the army has a lot to fix before things got fixed, and now the peaceful protesters are busy protecting there homes, families, and national and private authorities...so I am not sure if they will have time and effort to protest against Mubarak now!!!

and also many of the business men, whom was under the cover of the government has left the country...
Regarding the new cabinet, and the vice president... I am not optimistic at all as now I feel like I will have to live as a soldier not a citizen...

anyway now no one can expect what will happen tomorrow or in the next few days, there is 1000s questions without any answers..
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Re: Will Egypt Follow Tunisia? Jan 30, 2011
Mahmoud04, do you think the army will turn on the people?
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Re: Will Egypt Follow Tunisia? Jan 30, 2011
Mahmoud04 wrote:suddenly everyone is an expert with ME, Muslims, and Egyptians matters...

whats happening in Egypt now is beyond any expectations, and the dead are over 100 as in news but i think its higher than that.. and there is news about 1000s of prisoners escaped from jails... so i think the army has a lot to fix before things got fixed, and now the peaceful protesters are busy protecting there homes, families, and national and private authorities...so I am not sure if they will have time and effort to protest against Mubarak now!!!

and also many of the business men, whom was under the cover of the government has left the country...
Regarding the new cabinet, and the vice president... I am not optimistic at all as now I feel like I will have to live as a soldier not a citizen...

anyway now no one can expect what will happen tomorrow or in the next few days, there is 1000s questions without any answers..


There is nothing new under the Sun. All recent "revolutions" in poor countries go the same way: looting shops and musiums, seizure of land and private possession, chaos and anarchy. Kyrgizstan has had two such a revolution for last 5 years. Recently Al Shafique mocked at that country. Now we have Kyrgyzstan squared. :wink:
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Re: Will Egypt Follow Tunisia? Jan 30, 2011
Mahmoud04 wrote:suddenly everyone is an expert with ME, Muslims, and Egyptians matters...


Ignore the loons. They were just waiting for an anti-Islamic angle and couldn't contain themselves when a snippet of news was highlighted on Islamophobic blog. They are nothing if not predictable - some looting goes on and it is now Islam's fault. :roll:

For example Pamella Geller (a loon blogger, indeed holds the title 'looniest blogger ever') is supporting Mubarak:
The blogger who still loves Mubarak
Pamela Geller cheers for mass arrests, worries that Obama will throw our "ally" under the bus

http://www.salon.com/news/politics/war_ ... ller_egypt

And as Salon highlights, these guys aren't the sharpest knives in the drawer - their hatred of Muslims seems to over-ride logic:
Geller continued to demonstrate the limits of her simplistic, binary understanding of the world. "I am all for political freedom," she wrote, except that she prefers Mubarak to, uh, political freedom.



Anyway - with the death toll rising, rants from Islamophobic bloggers and those who believe them are the least of your worries.



Cheers,
Shafique
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Re: Will Egypt Follow Tunisia? Jan 30, 2011
Mahmoud04 wrote:suddenly everyone is an expert with ME, Muslims, and Egyptians matters...


:thumbup:
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Re: Will Egypt follow Tunisia? Jan 30, 2011
http://aljazeera.com/news/articles/39/Mubaraks-planning-exile-to-Tel-Aviv.html

According to sources in the Egyptian Embassy in Tel Aviv, Israel is making preparations to welcome Hosni Mubarak into exile after Saudi Arabia rejected overtures.
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Re: Will Egypt Follow Tunisia? Jan 30, 2011
kanelli wrote:Mahmoud04, do you think the army will turn on the people?



In general the answer will be 100% no...

but looking at the current situation, streets has 4 categories of people
1-Army
2-Peaceful protesters, now are busy protecting their homes and national / private authorities (and I ma proud both my bro are with them)
3-Criminals & thugs, stealing and destroying what they can reach
4-people from the interior acting as thugs and more or less doing as 3

in charge
1-President, army background, even now is call the Military ruler of Egypt not a president
2-Vice president, army background
3-Cabinet, I think mostly will be army background, but not 100% sure of course..

adding one fact, there is no ministry of interior now on the ground of Egypt...

I think now all cards are in People hands and nobody know what is their plans specially as we don't have internet which was the foundation of this revolution... and the reaction of the people will make it clearer if army will face them or not...
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Re: Will Egypt follow Tunisia? Jan 30, 2011
Mahmoud04, do you think the army will turn on the people?
In general the answer will be 100% no...


I feel they are going to, ...Otherwise Mubarak couldn't stay in his seat for the last 30 years, he does it under the security provided by army!

For the moment they're acting cute and deploy police forces to control the street, when the going gets tough, their bitter face will show through and then turn against their people..Meantime Mubarak will still be in his seat of course...
All the laws in Egypt are set to protect secularism and israel.If they sack mubarak, the country has to go to free elections, they know that if free election held, muslim brotherhood will come to power, without the free elections mubarak cannot give any of the opposition leaders to form the government.(that's according to democracy) that's why I think he keeps replacing everyone with ex commanders, since it is not realy a democracy but a military dictatorship..Mubarak is nothing but merely a civilian puppet under the guise of military dictatorship..
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Re: Will Egypt Follow Tunisia? Jan 30, 2011
The news footage today shows the crowds and army getting on well - with people on the tanks and embracing the soldiers.

I hope that this aspect of the protest continues and the army doesn't turn on the people.

Mahmoud - thanks for sharing, good to get personal insights into the events.

Cheers,
Shafique
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Re: Will Egypt follow Tunisia? Jan 30, 2011
The news footage today shows the crowds and army getting on well - with people on the tanks and embracing the soldiers.


I hope,that's too stays like that, but don't you think it's strange that while the soldiers are so friendly, the police taking the hell out of people..What's the difference? they both run by the same state..
Either the soldiers or the police or both doing the killings on the streets...
The truth is, people are made to belive the love of the military as the lord of the so called peaceful/successful system...when it is not..
As I said army and judicary system will show their true colours when muslims press hard against secularist laws that working against muslims..
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Re: Will Egypt Follow Tunisia? Jan 30, 2011
That's what I mean, it seems that the army has been very peaceful with civilians so far (at least those not looting or destroying important items/buildings). I really have my doubts that they will suddenly turn. The police are the ones reported to have been the most unpredictable and most violent with the protesters, though some have also joined the protesters. I feel really confident that Mubarak cannot hold on to power. What I wonder about is what kind of government will come next.
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Re: Will Egypt Follow Tunisia? Jan 30, 2011
[quote="Red Chief Kyrgizstan has had two such a revolution for last 5 years. Recently Al Shafique mocked at that country. Now we have Kyrgyzstan squared. :wink:[/quote]

Hah ha, RC Russia is no different when it comes to its hegomony on its ex colonial states..Only those who posses anything other than islamic agenda can come to the power? Isn't it? To be succesful, Presidents will either let themselves be slaved or bare to be overturned by all sorts of cheating and uprise on false promises...After all the mojority of these nations are muslim dominated and if they rise in power with the support of muslims, the whole nation can be a thread to Christian/Ahteist Russia, isn't it? They strategy on caucasus hasn't changed since the times of stalin..While the ex colonies in eastern Europe given the freedom to from their own state and join EU....
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Re: Will Egypt Follow Tunisia? Jan 30, 2011
Berrin wrote: Hah ha, RC Russia is no different when it comes to its hegomony on its ex colonial states..Only those who posses anything other than islamic agenda can come to the power? Isn't it? To be succesful, Presidents will either let themselves be slaved or bare to be overturned by all sorts of cheating and uprise on false promises...After all the mojority of these nations are muslim dominated and if they rise in power with the support of muslims, the whole nation can be a thread to Christian/Ahteist Russia, isn't it? They strategy on caucasus hasn't changed since the times of stalin..While the ex colonies in eastern Europe given the freedom to from their own state and join EU....


Berrin stop putting Muzlim spin on the countries and events you know nothing about. The only Muzlim in such countries like KirgizSTAN and KazakhSTAN is the word "STAN" in their names. Both nations have Russian as the national language and it has nothing in common with Russian infuence. Unfortunately the athority of former parent state is not big enough to stop people from looting during colourful and floral revolutions.

There is no evidence of any threat but only centripetal force. You probably forgot the weight of this state against Russia. :wink:

About Caucasus just for your information there are Christian states as well there and not with all of them Russia has good relationship. :wink:
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Re: Will Egypt Follow Tunisia? Jan 30, 2011
"STAN" is not muslim Chief! It's persian. :D
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Re: Will Egypt Follow Tunisia? Jan 30, 2011
Red Chief wrote: Berrin stop putting Muzlim spin on the countries and events you know nothing about. The only Muzlim in such countries like KirgizSTAN and KazakhSTAN is the word "STAN" in their names. Both nations have Russian as the national language and it has nothing in common with Russian infuence. Unfortunately the athority of former parent state is not big enough to stop people from looting during colourful and floral revolutions.

There is no evidence of any threat but only centripetal force. You probably forgot the weight of this state against Russia. :wink:

About Caucasus just for your information there are Christian states as well there and not with all of them Russia has good relationship. :wink:


Steady boy steady..I can see the imperial of you coming out..But you can't fool me you know..
Those countries were -STAN -STAN and -STAN and were muslim majority, long before the world was shared between Soviets and Americans..
We all know that even tho Russian was not their local/native language, It was made to stay their offical language ever since they were colonised by Soviets after the 2nd world war...Now you can't tell us that you havent heard of Turkic language family and where they are spoken..
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Turkic_languages

When it comes to caucasus I am not talking about christian independent states such as Georgia and Armenia, I am talking about Soviet north caucasus where muslim republics such as Dagestan, chechnya that are not yet allowed to become independent states...

Now I am gonna be smart on you,this time with imperial side of me :wink: :D ...
The Muslim population of Soviet Union are mainly concentrated in three regions. These are Central Asia, Volga-Ural and Caucasus. Firstly there are five Muslim states on the north of Afghanistan and Iran. These are Kazakhstan, Kirghizia, Uzbekistan, Turkmenistan and Tajikistan. Secondly the Muslim settlements on the banks of Volga river and Muslim regions of Tataria and Bashkhiria on the Ural mountains. Lastly the region between Black sea and Kashpian Sea.


About one fourth of the area of Soviet Union was Muslim majority. If we exclude Siberia then it can be said that around half of the area of Soviet Union was Muslim majority, because the ice-covered barren Siberia occupies half of Soviet Union.

Total population of Soviet Union was 22 crores(in 1975), of them Muslims are around 4 crores. There is shortage of authentic information about the exact population of Muslims in Soviet Union. In 1913 there were around one crore and eighty lac Muslims in Tsar ruled Russia [Bennigsen. A. Islam in The Soviet Union, Pali Mall Press, London]. In 1960 it was assumed that Muslim population of Soviet Union was more than three crore [Bennigsen. A. Islam in The Soviet Union, Pali Mall Press, London]. Depending on these statistics it is assumed that Muslim population of Russia is now around 4 crore(in the year 1975).


Almost 85% of the Muslim population of Soviet Union are Turkish in origin and Turkish speaking. People of Kazakhstan, Kirghizia, Turkmenistan and Uzbekistan of Central Asia, Tataria and Bashkhiria of Volga-Ural, and Azerbeizan of South Caucasus mountains are Turkish speaking. Beside these there are several Turkish speaking population in North Caucasus, Siberia, Lithuania and Belarus.


The rest 15% Muslim population of Soviet Union are mainly the Farsi speaking population of Tajikhistan. Beside Turkish and Farsi speaking population, there are Muslim population in Caucasus with different local languages (e.g Dagestani, Chechen, Inguish, Kabarda, Adizei) and few Arabic speaking Muslims.


It can be inferred from this discussion that only with the exception of Tajikhistan and North Caucasus whole of the Muslim population of Soviet Union are Turkish speaking and Turkish in origin.

http://www.witness-pioneer.org/vil/Book ... pter_1.htm
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