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Waf

Found this post for you using search, hope it helps and maybe worth pm'ing the guy.

barastisundowner
Dubai Forums Member


Joined: 16 Dec 2005
Posts: 49
Location: UK (just left dubai after 5 yrs
Posted: Thu Jan 12, 2006 2:53 pm Post subject:

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If you've a western passport, starting a minimum 15kdhs salary with the Jumeriah group + housing allowence and car allowence. But can do loads better.

This is so confusing, the whole ban thing... It exists, no, it doesn't, etc.

So, hypothetically, I gave up my job, sold my belongings and moved to the UAE, only to find on arrival that the working conditions at my new company are NOT what I am used to. I see several vacancies in the newspaper that I qualify for. I don't feel like going home yet - don't like to give up that easily!

Is there any way for me to move companies? Surely you cannot be held prisoner by your employer for your entire first year in Dubai (and then they try to take your passport off you as well...)

Two additional factors to consider:

1)I AM STILL UNDER PROBATION, for another two months.
2)My residency will be issued in Sharjah - I heard that there is also a ban against moving between emirates, and most attractive job opportunities seem to be in Dubai.

Help?

okay muffin i have made a couple of enquiries - with specific reference to your situation.... some of the info may be pertinant to others, so i am submitting it o the forum.

the labour ban issue affects the FEDERAL LABOUR LAW. in short this means that it is imposed throught the UAE and is not just a "local" issue.

for you this means that taking up a position in any other emirate WILL result in the ban being imposed!

second point. clarity on the probation "clause", this IS included in the Federal Labour Law and is defined as a period of 3 months from date of employment. Some companies change this to 6 months, as long as it is included in the legal (submitted to the dept. of labour) contract and you have signed it, it is enforable.

the PROBATION PERIOD is to protect the employer!!!!! it does not run both ways! (i was also unaware of this). basically after your probation you can be terminated without any recourse to the department of labour - they will simply state that you "under-performed". this does not mean that at the end of your probation if you are not happy with your employer you can simply walk off to another job!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! YOU WILL STILL INCURE THE BAN.

to sumerise YOUR current position, if you have not been issued with a labour card and your employer has not even applied for one (on your behalf) then technically you are working illegally and have NO recourse to any legal aid (or the help of the department of labour). BUT if this is the case then there is nothing stopping you from walking out the door and taking up another position!!!

if your employer has applied for a labour card on your behalf and is in the process of having it processed .... well then basically you are screwed
if this is the case, and you are unhappy with your position now, i would suggest - take the know, leave for 6 months and come back. if you hate your job and the place you are currently staying in then it will only cause you stress!

on the upside.... i have heard from a good source that they may drop the labour ban as well (- although its still hear say and i have no timeframe for this either .....

sorry .... this was supposed to read

" ....i would suggest - take the knock ...."

I am gobsmacked at the probation period not cutting both ways.

that sucks

Does anyone know how long does it take to obtain the initial work visa ?!

between 2 and 3 weeks for the whole process - on average
1 week to 10 days if the pro knows what he is doing,
4 to 5 if he doesn't or there are minor complications
in excess of 8 weeks and they are pulling your chain!

dbxsoul do you mean that after 10 days on avg. they should have the initial one and then they email it to me ?!!

It will take between 6 to 8 weeks this also depends on how many visas the company putting in as if it is a large company they may be putting over 35 which is the limit which has to be approvedbefore any more come in and it also has to do if the company also has any runners which again also freezes any applications.

Are you working for a construction company or consultant if it is for a construction company will take a while.Most companies will bring you here on a visit visa and will have to extend this after the 60 days for another 30 which usually covers it.

well don't know which kind are they doing they asked me to stamp my certifiactes from the UAE and I did so they told me we will email u the initial work permit/visa within 10 days.

I would say they are organising a visit visa

not an easy question i have tried answering it a few times before.

the processes of immigration (application for residency visa) and application for a labour card are two seperate procedures and are handled by two seperate government departments. the processes run in tandum, but one may be dependant on the other for its progression.

normally the company applies first to labour for "labour apporval", which means that the labour department approves the company to employ a person. you are submitted as the candidate.
once approval is given, then they will only apply for residency status for you (else they will waste the money if labour rejects your application).

the two processes then run in tandum, your certificates are submitted to labour and immigration processes your visa.

in some instances a "security clearance" is required by immigration. this is posted back to the company .... i should point out here that almost 90% of the application process - labour and immigration can now be done on-line by the company... only a minimum of standing in queues is required!!!! the security certificate can delay things by a week as it cannot be collected from the department and the pro has to wait for it to arrive in the mail. i'm not sure on what basis the security clearance is imposed... !!

finally once the whole lot comes together a residency visa (entiteling you to work) is issued by immigration. this can then be forewarded to you by your employer to allow you to enter the country. people who have entered the country previously on a visit visa then have this converted to a residency visa (at a cost of about 500 AED - although i think it has now gone up to 1,000 AED). most companies will make the employee pay for this "transfer cost" - remember this only applies to people converting from visit to residency.

on arrival in the uae you are subject to a medical - this is the final process before being issued your labour card. this takes about 2 to 3 days to be finalised..


the final stage

uaeaussie wrote:Are you working for a construction company or consultant if it is for a construction company will take a while.Most companies will bring you here on a visit visa and will have to extend this after the 60 days for another 30 which usually covers it.

what you are refering to here is called a "block visa" and is used mainly in the construction and maintenance industries where large numbers of employees are recruited and processed at the same time.

yes this can take up to 6 months!!!! as all the paperwork for each individual has to be completed 100% and all submitted together for processing...

this is normally used for manual, unqualified labour as the labour and qualification criteria are different !

yes but construction companies hire proffesionals as well as general labour which does cause issues I know my company employes a fairly large amount of both

especially for arnie!


article 37 of the federal law no. 8 of 1980 (amended in 1986) states:

"An employee may be appointed under probation for a period not exceeding six months. However, the employer may terminate the service of the employee during this period without notice and without end of service benefits and no employee may be appointed under probation more than once with the same employer. If the emploee passes the probation period sucessfully and continues to work, the period shall be considered part of the service period"

the gramatical errors are not mine, but the crappy spelling ... well i appologies to the dept. of labour

this means that benefits such as leave accrual, gratuity etc.... do not accurue in the first 6 months (or duration of the probation), but after "sucessfull" completion of the probation these are "credited" to you!

dbxsoul U r the man.
I was wondering how do u know all of this info do u work for the gov or something lol

thx dxbsoul your knowledge and time is appreciated

Wafaey wrote:dbxsoul U r the man.
I was wondering how do u know all of this info do u work for the gov or something lol

ha-ha. please don't wish things like that on me. you can only drink so many cups of coffe (or tea) in the day.... and ... well once youv'e read the paper for the day, reading it a second or third time is just no fun

dbxsoul, I think you're the only one who can help me out with my current predicament!

After 4 months with my company (having passed the 3 month probation period), my boss and I came with a mutual decision that it was best to leave the company. I won't go into details, but it was a decision I had been wanting to take before my probation period had ended.

During the 4 months, I was given a residence visa (on my U.K passport) and a labour card. I also managed to get my drivers license during this period, AND took a large loan from the bank after giving confirmation that I was "set" with my employer.

Now, the company wants to cancel my visa. According to what I understood from them:

1) The labour department will NOT reissue a visa under my name until one year after the issuance date of my soon-to-be-canceled visa (unless I find a job in Jebel Ali)
2) I will be able to leave and re-enter Dubai freely every two months, getting a visit visa stamped at the airport since I have a U.K passport.
3) My bank MIGHT have the authority to "arrest" me if I leave Dubai, even if I am continuing to make monthly payments on the loan??

What do you suggest I do? Is my situation really that dire? Do I HAVE to find work in Jebel Ali?? Are there any problems driving my car here with my license if I am no longer a "resident" of Dubai? Can I cancel my visa now, drive to Oman and u-turn back into Dubai and have a visit visa stamped??

Any help would be greatly appreciated.

DXBsoul will know the details i'm sure.

All i do know is that you are correct about the 60 day re-entry rule being a Brit, and if you work in a "free zone" the labour rules do not apply.

You state Jebel Ali as a free zone and you are correct, but... the area around the Marina is also considered a "free zone". Obviously this includes DIC, Knowledge City, Media City etc.

Soul will be able to tell you the other technicallities.

Dubai media city is a freezone most definately...i work there...and had a guy cross over from a rival tv station...without facing any bans or any problems whatsoever....!!...i guess being in the middle of nowhere does hae some advantages!!

Arnie, constantine.. thanks for the quick replies! I didn't know Media City, Internet City were also free zones...
Thanks for the heads up!

arniegang wrote:I am gobsmacked at the probation period not cutting both ways.

So am I. My understanding was that an employee could walk out with no fallout while under probation and I'm aware of people who've done that. Maybe they were with companies who didn't know better (fortunately for the people concerned).

Sleepless

Basically anything in between interchange 4 + 5 on the SZR and onto Jebel Ali is now considered the "free zone"

sleepless.in.dubai wrote:2) I will be able to leave and re-enter Dubai freely every two months, getting a visit visa stamped at the airport since I have a U.K passport.
3) My bank MIGHT have the authority to "arrest" me if I leave Dubai, even if I am continuing to make monthly payments on the loan??

What do you suggest I do? Is my situation really that dire? Do I HAVE to find work in Jebel Ali?? Are there any problems driving my car here with my license if I am no longer a "resident" of Dubai? Can I cancel my visa now, drive to Oman and u-turn back into Dubai and have a visit visa stamped??

2. Yes AFAIK. For 33 nationalities who don't need to pre-arrange visas.
3. Possibly? But they're unlikely to know or care as long as you make your payments, and as long as the company hasn't notified them your visa has been cancelled. Some companies require a clearance letter from the bank before your visa gets cancelled. That usually means you have to pay off outstanding loans.

If you have a car and licence, I don't think you'd have a problem until renewal of licence and registration (when you'll need to show a residency visa - last time I registered a car, they just wanted a photocopy of residency visa). If you're stopped by police, I don't think they'll ask for passport. If you're arrested, they probably will but no idea of the consequences if there's no residency visa in it.

Yes, you can do the Oman U-turn business. I heard from someone who'd done that that the Omani authorities frown on it a bit and you may not be able to do it repeatedly. Some useful information on that method here. Also has other visa information.

hi there, sorry about the late reply, but it would see that the other members have managed to get through most of your queries.

the most important one for you is. yes, on termination and cancellation of your labour card you will be banned (labour) for six months. as you have not worked out a full year under your current employers sponsorship you cannot transfer either.

you are correct in assuming that one of the freezones will be able to offer you an oppertunity without the ban being implimented. off the top of my head there are about 15 "freezones" in the uae - a number of which have already been mentioned in the postings above. have a look at this link: http://www.theemiratesnetwork.com/dir/G ... ree_Zones/

there are a few more zones currently under construction including the dubai flower centre, the business bay development and silicon oasis... although i would think you have to act now. pleanty of people working in the freezones make the 60 day tour to the border and back.

on cancellation of your residency visa you have 30 days to exit the country before you are considered illegal - trying to exit after this will result in you being taken into custody and fined for every day over your cut-off point. this means, once cancelled - take a trip to oman, do the in and out thing, that will give you two months to try and sort things out in one of the fz's.

i can't comment about the banking issue, but would assume that numerous other people have crossed from a normal dubai labour contract to a fz contract - i hardly see the jails bursting at the seams. it may be worth contacting the bank and telling them that you are considering changing jobs to the fz, and see what thier response is. i have a meeting with a rep from one of the banks tomorrow and will try and find out from her.

working in a fz still gives you residency status - if they do the paperwork for you, hence you'd be able to drive you car around and have it re-registered. the only problem i could see is that you are able to find a job in one of the fz's, but they won't provide you with residency and require you do do regular visa runs (this happens a lot as well); this would cause an issue with registration.

trust this helps ...

dbxsoul wrote:6. people working in a FreeZone are excluded from the ban when transfering between companies - only because they are not subject to the Federal and Emirate labour law

A slight doubt . There is a situation where a person is on a dubai visa, the company is moving all their employees under the Free zone visa - Dubai Outsource Zone ( I guess it falls under the DMC ). The person has now completed 8 months under the dubai visa but soon would be shifting to this new free zone visa. Does he get a ban after he quits from the co after the visa change?.. Or would he have to do anthr 6 months or 1 year to not get the default ministry ban???

once he has moved on to a free zone company he will not be banned if he moves.

i would just check that the company IS in actual fact moving the employees to a FZ visa and not just re-locating the business to the FZ without changing the employees current visa status i.e. the person goes to work in the FZ, but is still on a Dubai visa. if the latter is the case they would still have to work out 1 year before they can transfer.

i should also point out here that after 1 year of service - it is still up to the employer whether they will allow you to transfer or not, it is not a matter of the employee saying "well i've worked here a year, transfer me". if the employer refuses or denys the transfer you can still be banned. even worse you have then indicated to your employer that you no longer want to work for him - which normally results in a stressful work environment!