Women "breast Ironing"...

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Jul 09, 2006
i guess you didn't read the "legitimate criticism" part of my message, but of course to you i'm just another raving touchy muslim who refuses to listen to reason.

and the atheist argument is weak. That's like making racist jokes and saying I make fun of all races so it's alright. do you know how that holds up in a court of law? it doesn't

terranova
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Jul 09, 2006
terranova wrote:i guess you didn't read the "legitimate criticism" part of my message, but of course to you i'm just another raving touchy muslim who refuses to listen to reason.

and the atheist argument is weak. That's like making racist jokes and saying I make fun of all races so it's alright. do you know how that holds up in a court of law? it doesn't


Actually, I said no such thing. Those are your words. I only said that you are being oversensitive about the discussion of your religion. You still haven't said why you feel my criticism isn't legitimate, and you haven't discussed at all whether you feel that Islam is a patriarchal religion. You came to this thread to criticise me instead of actually discussing the topics at hand and bringing up counter arguments.

So atheists are the equivalent of racists, just discriminating against religions? Gee, there is a great track record through history of religious people being tolerant of other religions. :lol: My atheism argument is not weak at all, because it is relevant to the fact that I will never accept "the Bible/Quran/Torah etc. says it is so, so it must be so" argument that I often hear from religious folk. I criticise and question religion because I am free to do it, especially when it does damage to society and individuals.
kanelli
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Jul 09, 2006
kanelli wrote:
So men can be impure and cracked, but their women have to be perfect?



Did i say that?!! :shock:

What i have said is just the opposite!! i dont know how i was interpreted like that!!



Both men and women are capable of mentally, physically and s.e.xually abusing each other. The stereotype is that women are sugar and spice and everything nice and they need to be sheltered and protected, when really that isn't the case.



Did i say anything which goes against this?!!!

If men and women want to live together as a couple, then they are there to support and compliment each other's lives. Each person should have a chance to be dominant or submissive in some cases, depending on their own individual talents, strengths and weaknesses in certain matters or situations. It is really a disadvantage to women to be treated like naive children that the husband has the divine right to rule over for her own "protection".



Kan, i still dont get it :? whatever i was saying pours into this!!

where is the issue then?!
Intimacy
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Jul 09, 2006
Intimacy, I interpreted your posts as justifications for why women are supposed to be covered and kept away from men outside their families until they are married. Your original posts focus on the fragility of women and their need for protection - you talked about women being like crystals, not men being like crystals. You talked about how men are the predators...
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Jul 09, 2006
kanelli wrote:Intimacy, I interpreted your posts as justifications for why women are supposed to be covered and kept away from men outside their families until they are married. Your original posts focus on the fragility of women and their need for protection - you talked about women being like crystals, not men being like crystals. You talked about how men are the predators...


and how does this offences the women!?
Intimacy
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Jul 09, 2006
I give up.
kanelli
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Jul 09, 2006
Oh come on Kan ... :D
Intimacy
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Jul 09, 2006
kanelli, i didn't come to criticize you, but rather question why the arguments about religious issues always focus on islam, and why they always always always focus on the stereotypical muslim image.

anyways, i don't want to argue with you and you are free to criticize who you please. do keep it reasonable though
terranova
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Jul 09, 2006
All so amusing :lol:

Let me just say that I am glad I was born a woman in the country that I was with the background that I was in this day in age. I'm in a far better position than fellow women-folk around the world or in decades before me. Hopefully men will evolve at some point, but maybe they need a few more decades. :lol:
kanelli
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Jul 10, 2006
This is looking like a thread that needs to be tranfered to teh religion forum.

As for the topic itself, keep it up guys, I find it all amusing :)
Liban
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Jul 10, 2006
I agree with Liban - can this be toned down please or i will split

many thanks
arniegang
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Jul 10, 2006
arniegang wrote:I agree with Liban - can this be toned down please or i will split

many thanks


You 'Ve got The Power :P :P
Corcovado
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Jul 10, 2006
I have

but i did ask very nicely first.

:P :P :P
arniegang
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Jul 10, 2006
arniegang wrote:I have

but i did ask very nicely first.

:P :P :P


I like cheese... Will this be split now?
Liban
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Jul 10, 2006
please stay on topic Liban

now can we get back to some donkey stories or swallow stories/posts please

:lol: :lol: :lol:
arniegang
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Jul 10, 2006
arniegang wrote:please stay on topic Liban

now can we get back to some donkey stories or swallow stories/posts please

:lol: :lol: :lol:


Naughty naughty arnie :lol: :lol:
Corcovado
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Jul 10, 2006
Corcovado wrote:
arniegang wrote:please stay on topic Liban

now can we get back to some donkey stories or swallow stories/posts please

:lol: :lol: :lol:


Naughty naughty arnie :lol: :lol:



so spank me

:P :P :P :P
arniegang
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Jul 11, 2006
There was nothing to tone down in this thread, no need for overreacting!
If you want to tone something down Arnie, why not tone down your attack on Nick81 and Raidah in Fight Club. If you are keen to split a thread, then why not take the 5 pages of off-topic banter out of that same thread.
kanelli
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Jul 11, 2006
K

With respect, there was a need to tone it down. The original subject had gone off topic way before i posted, and you indeed were part of that process, so please dont lecture me on staying "on topic".

With regards to what was put in FC, then that is a entirely separate issue, and has nothing to do with this topic at hand. Your comments regarding this, have no place in this thread. I noted your comment in the FC thread, you do not need to repeat yourself.

You also failed to notice that FC is technically "unmoderated" and i cannot therefore split the thread.

Furthermore, I should not need to remind you of the concept of fight club.
arniegang
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Jul 11, 2006
K & A - easy does it!
Concord
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Jul 11, 2006
Concord wrote:K & A - easy does it!


Or let me know so I can take wagers!
Concord
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Jul 11, 2006
we love each other really, she has said her bit, now i have said mine

end of... as far as i am concerned Concs

:wink: :wink:
arniegang
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Jul 11, 2006
arniegang wrote:K

With respect, there was a need to tone it down. The original subject had gone off topic way before i posted, and you indeed were part of that process, so please dont lecture me on staying "on topic".

With regards to what was put in FC, then that is a entirely separate issue, and has nothing to do with this topic at hand. Your comments regarding this, have no place in this thread. I noted your comment in the FC thread, you do not need to repeat yourself.

You also failed to notice that FC is technically "unmoderated" and i cannot therefore split the thread.

Furthermore, I should not need to remind you of the concept of fight club.


How were we off-topic?

Women iron breasts, cut clitorises and cover themselves from head to toe in some cultures to protect themselves from s.ex.ual abuse, keep themselves "pure", or whatever bizarre reason related to male whims. This is because those societies are patriarchal and the onus is on the women to change their behaviour instead of the men changing theirs.
kanelli
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Jul 11, 2006
arniegang wrote:so spank me

:P :P :P :P

That's Liban's job!!
the_zooter
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Jul 11, 2006
Kanelli, I asked this question before, but what society isn't patriarchal?
tdot
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Jul 11, 2006
its too bad ...
saim
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Jul 11, 2006
Tdot i believe there is a village in Indonesia that is a matriarchal society - there may be others in other countries.

It's not these ones http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Minangkabau although property is passed to women
scarlet
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Jul 11, 2006
kanelli wrote:Women iron breasts, cut clitorises and cover themselves from head to toe in some cultures to protect themselves from s.ex.ual abuse, keep themselves "pure", or whatever bizarre reason related to male whims. This is because those societies are patriarchal and the onus is on the women to change their behaviour instead of the men changing theirs.

I can't help but agree with you. Sometimes equal rights seems to mean equal as long as the male agrees!
I have no problem with people dressing appropriately for their culture. And if women wear full cover burka's (including covering their face) and men wear their traditional clothes and head scarfe's (apologies for not knowing the correct names!), then that's fine. But it really pi$$es me off when I see a couple where the woman is in full cover, and the guy is there wearing shorts and a t-shirt. I have to say it makes me cringe that thousands of years of evolution, and some guys still act like cave men in their beliefs!
Disagree with me if you want - but that's my view
the_zooter
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Jul 11, 2006
the_zooter wrote:
arniegang wrote:so spank me

:P :P :P :P

That's Liban's job!!


thank u zoots ur my knight...and arnie i dont know what going on with u ...BEHAVE ... :twisted:
Corcovado
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Jul 11, 2006
My 2 fils,

Aren't "we" imposing "our" values on what is right or wrong. Being able to wear whatever anyone wants doesn't necessarily mean that that society/culture is better than the other. In fact, believe you me, I've seen enough forms of undress at the malls (scary stuff) which would not be tolerated back wherever they come from ("western" or not). It is simply a matter of arrongance (or lack of class) to show they can wear whaever they want - although for some their dress is their livelyhood - or means to obtain it. Others, may have looked better before but "hit the wall" decades ago.

I wonder if any woman who is "covered up" has posted on this thread. Or whether anyone posting has asked a woman who wears the abaya about her opinion (and don't tell me they are all afraid to speak up). My wife and I think is a horrible thing but what the heck do we know...

If I am not miskaten Karen Hughes, Under Secretary For Public Diplomacy, USA, was lectured recently by women in the middle east about her "attempting" to tell them what was best for them (particularly with respect to dress, etc.). Albeit a minor example, and perhaps "staged" but...
Concord
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