""Whites Have Become Black"

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Re: ""Whites Have Become Black" Aug 29, 2011
Nope, haven't read his book - I trust Bora's review though. (See posts above)

I've read his other works of fiction though - eg related to terrorist threats, and what we've been discussing here: his view of Islam.

Also note that the discussion is about talking donkeys vs eh's quotation of one Quranic verse:

shafique wrote:Well, I wonder if your talking donkeys are the same ones eh believes in. :D

As for your scholarly interpretation of the one Arabic verse - I'll happily stick to the explanation already given. You seem to think you know better. :roll:

You may want to look up verse 3:7 and let us know what that means.


(It seems quite a distance from the original post about Whites copying Blacks in the recent UK riots! )

Cheers,
Shafique

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Re: ""Whites Have Become Black" Aug 29, 2011
Well we don't want to exclude Herve from any discussions as the only thing he ever talks about is his book and his hatred of Islam and Muslims.

Must be the most boring person in real life.
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Re: ""Whites Have Become Black" Aug 30, 2011
desertdudeshj wrote:Well we don't want to exclude Herve from any discussions as the only thing he ever talks about is his book and his hatred of Islam and Muslims.

Must be the most boring person in real life.


Munchkin! Please excuse my abrupt post but I have been on the razz on JBR tonight but I really couldn't let your post go without replying to it! Herve is not the most boring person in real life! In fact he is very exciting! If I were to to choose from a French Naval Officer and a donkey herder from Pakistan I know who I would choose and it wouldn't be you'
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Re: ""Whites Have Become Black" Aug 30, 2011
shafique wrote:Of course I oppose any actual killing of children who may oppose their parents - try and keep up eh. A parable about a vision shown to Moses is hardly the same as your excuses for the actual killing of babies and enslavement of virgins - that's why you're the most extreme religious fanatic here.

Why do you hide your beliefs - is it because you're embarrassed by them?

Cheers,
Shafique


Where does the clear Koran say the story is a parable?
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Re: ""Whites Have Become Black" Aug 30, 2011
desertdudeshj wrote:Well we don't want to exclude Herve from any discussions as the only thing he ever talks about is his book and his hatred of Islam and Muslims.

Must be the most boring person in real life.


He does have an active imagination though - but you're right, all this hatred towards 'Arabs' and vitriol about Islam is predictable and now boring.

But I was amused that Sheikh Abu Daffa' is now claiming to know more about the Quran than me, but has yet not shown any evidence of his scholarship of the Quran. This latest claim is quite amazing - but one that is proving to be as hollow as his other pronouncements.

(Young eh - the parable of Khidr in ch18 of the Quran is there for all to read. Google is your friend - but first just read the verses from v65 onwards. Perhaps your belief in talking donkeys is clouding your judgement as to what is a parable and what should be taken literally - see 3.7 in the Quran if still confused)

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Shafique
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Re: ""Whites have become Black" Aug 30, 2011
Men with good imagination make the best lovers. :D
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Re: ""Whites Have Become Black" Aug 30, 2011
shafique wrote:He does have an active imagination though


I seriously doubt it. I can predict what Mr hatefull boring farts next post or thread is going to be about. Any guesses :D

And who let the windbag out on Eid ? Well atleast during ramadan the hot air was to a minimum, sigh, all good things must come to an end.
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Re: ""Whites Have Become Black" Aug 30, 2011
desertdudeshj wrote:
shafique wrote:He does have an active imagination though


I seriously doubt it. I can predict what Mr hatefull boring farts next post or thread is going to be about. Any guesses :D

And who let the windbag out on Eid ? Well atleast during ramadan the hot air was to a minimum, sigh, all good things must come to an end.



And this is how you chose to move forward a discussion?

Do the words pot and kettle resonate much with you?

sheeesh ............. :(
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Re: ""Whites Have Become Black" Aug 30, 2011
VW a discussion is something you have with people who have some substance in their arguments, not people like eh and herve who have nothing to offer but loaded threads and trolling their agenda 24/7.

To take them seriously is to give legitimacy to their non sensical phobic agenda, I know stooping down to an idiot's level also sort of makes you an idiot but their is no reasoning with such people, because they are not here to discuss, seek knowledge or anything rational for that matter but just wave their flags. Its either ignore them and or have a little bit of fun and have a laugh.

If you see if anyone really wants to discuss, most posters will join that discussion. Doesn't matter if it is anti islamic, arab, muslim, pro israel etc etc. Just as long as it is a credible exhange of thoughts and opinions. Just flip back to pages before the arrival of eh, herve and their likes.

You seem to have a level head on your shoulders, articulate your opinions well, would love to see more input from you instead of reading the same old drivel from the ilk.
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Re: ""Whites have become Black" Aug 30, 2011
desert wrote:because they are not here to discuss, seek knowledge or anything rational for that matter but just wave their flags.


philosophy-dubai/did-jesus-say-faith-without-works-dead-t38145.html

event horizon wrote:Thanks for explaining it to me. I just thought if you were going to pontificate about the Bible, you might as well know who the actual author is.


Yup.

It looks like we've got ourselves a loon who wants to explain to us the meaning of a book he's never read !

Try to be consistent, otherwise you're as much of a troll as your friend who knows all things of the Bible from missionary DOT com websites...and even then, he doesn't get the basics right.

shafique wrote:(Young eh - the parable of Khidr in ch18 of the Quran is there for all to read. Google is your friend - but first just read the verses from v65 onwards. Perhaps your belief in talking donkeys is clouding your judgement as to what is a parable and what should be taken literally - see 3.7 in the Quran if still confused)


Was it a dream, a 'vision' (like the book of Revelation is, and therefore doesn't necessarily need to be interpreted literally)? Or do you need to buy time to come up with a credible explanation for a prophet of God, Khidr, taking orders from Allah and killing an innocent boy?

Where does the clear Koran state as such anyways?
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Re: ""Whites Have Become Black" Aug 31, 2011
This particular discussion should now be in the religion forum, as it deals with eh's beliefs and evasion on Biblical passages -from talking donkeys to whether Christians should ignore Timothy or Paul over whether 'works are required' (see below).

But, given we are here - let me address the points:

Looks like the believer in Talking Donkeys is up to his usual tactics again - this time fantasising that a parable about Moses is as real as the proverbial talking donkeys. (Hint: eh, not everyone believes things like you do). ;)

That said, the link he give is a classic example. 1. He quotes a snippet without reference. 2. He goes on to make weasley excuses when asked about the contradictions in the Bible (a direct consequence of the snippet he quotes). Thanks eh - enlightening to see your tactics at work. Those that click on the link will see how you're misrepresenting the thread - there it shows that you acknowledged 2 errors in your understanding before starting the thread, and then refused to answer a simple question about a contradiction in the Bible.

I think it is pretty clear he is ashamed of his beliefs. But let's see if he does choose to answer the points below in the respective threads.

shafique wrote:
Please don't tell me eh is bringing up his straw man AGAIN. He failed to show I believe in superstitions in the past (he's pretty used to failing).

By contrast we have many examples of eh's own evasions on some Biblical events (Biblical beliefs he hasn't condemned and which his fellow American Christians believe in literally):

1. Talking donkeys (not to be confused with the loons aka 'talking a$$s' :D ):
philosophy-dubai/talking-donkeys-bible-evasion-t42810.html

2. Earth can stop revolving for a day (and the Bible and Science generally):
philosophy-dubai/talking-donkeys-bible-evasion-t42810.html

3. Eh's belief in Rapture (where he will magically disappear one day):
philosophy-dubai/rapture-day-t46391.html
philosophy-dubai/rapture-t39043.html


So, whilst I'm still waiting for any illogical beliefs within Islam (rather than some Muslims with superstitious beliefs/interpretations), perhaps eh can shed light on his own un-scientific beliefs.


Cheers,
Shafique
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Re: ""Whites Have Become Black" Aug 31, 2011
Blimey sunshine! You're getting a bit desperate when you start reposting your own posts! Do you like the sound of your own voice or what?
You are displaying the classic signs of a bigot!

Where's my smiley faces? LOL
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Re: ""Whites have become Black" Aug 31, 2011
Looks like the believer in Talking Donkeys is up to his usual tactics again - this time fantasising that a parable about Moses is as real as the proverbial talking donkeys. (Hint: eh, not everyone believes things like you do).


Let's see the evidence the passage of a prophet of Allah killing a boy is a parable. Are you ashamed that your prophet, Khidr, carried out an act incompatible with modern standards and ethics?

If so, I can understand the diversion and your buying time to come up with a more convincing argument. On the other hand, Revelation is a dream and is interpreted by many Christians figuratively. Also, unlike Muslim texts, Christians are not said to take part in fighting against the enemy - in Islam's case, Jews are specifically singled out for attack (along with all unbelievers, of course) which should explain why the Islamic world is so deeply anti-Semitic to this day and age.
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Re: ""Whites Have Become Black" Aug 31, 2011
I'm not ashamed for NOT believing in talking donkeys or talking ants.

It is clear to me that the parable of Moses and Khidr is a parable - but I understand your desire to believe it to be literal. Isn't this because you desperately want to divert attention away from your extremist views about killings of civilians being justified?

I don't condone the killing of kids - and the Quranic parable doesn't help you on this fundamental point.

The Bible does contain some explicit verses, such as:
Blessed is the one who grabs your babies and smashes them against a rock

Psalms 137

You remain the only religious extremist condoning the killing of children. Do you take Psalm 137 literally?

Cheers,
Shafique
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Re: ""Whites have become Black" Aug 31, 2011
Enough with the smoke and mirrors, where does the Koran say the story of your child murdering prophet, Khidr (acting on Allah's will) was a 'parable'?
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Re: ""Whites Have Become Black" Aug 31, 2011
No smoke, no mirrors. Your belief that the parable is literal is the one that needs to be justified - just like you need to justify the bashing of babies, talking donkeys and talking ants.

The verses are clearly a parable - unless you really think that Moses and Khidr scuppered a ship, mended a wall, murdered a child etc all in one journey. But then again, you DO believe in talking donkeys.. so I guess you are just desperate to foister your beliefs on others.

The parable is a parable. Simple.

Don't you believe this story by Jesus to be a parable:
Jesus answered, "A certain man was going down from Jerusalem to Jericho, and he fell among robbers, who both stripped him and beat him, and departed, leaving him half dead. By chance a certain priest was going down that way. When he saw him, he passed by on the other side. In the same way a Levite also, when he came to the place, and saw him, passed by on the other side. But a certain Samaritan, as he traveled, came where he was. When he saw him, he was moved with compassion, came to him, and bound up his wounds, pouring on oil and wine. He set him on his own animal, and brought him to an inn, and took care of him. On the next day, when he departed, he took out two denarii, and gave them to the host, and said to him, 'Take care of him. Whatever you spend beyond that, I will repay you when I return.' Now which of these three do you think seemed to be a neighbour to him who fell among the robbers?"

He said, "He who showed mercy on him."

Then Jesus said to him, "Go and do likewise."


Isn't the above clearly a parable (and a famous one to boot?).

How stupid would I be if I insisted it wasn't a parable but was literal? Probably as someone insisting that the parable of Moses and Khidr is literally true - or believing in talking donkeys!

Clear now?

Cheers,
Shafique
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Re: ""Whites have become Black" Aug 31, 2011
The killing of children by Muslims is not a parable, isn' t it called honor killing?
http://www.iris.org.il/blog/archives/22 ... alive.html
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Re: ""Whites Have Become Black" Aug 31, 2011
Killing of children by Christians is not a parable either - but why state the obvious? Brievik was a Christian and as much as a criminal as any Muslim who commits murder, for example. Baruch Goldstein was a Jewish American doctor who killed worshippers in cold blood BECAUSE of his religious views.

But perhaps you're thinking of eh's justification for the killing of children and enslavement of virgins.. the contrast is that I don't condone any of these crimes.

But what has that all got to do with the parable of Moses and Khidr in the Quran or the Biblical verse which says bashing the heads of babies on rocks is a blessed act? :?

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Shafique
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Re: ""Whites have become Black" Aug 31, 2011
Shaf, honor killings by Muslims are real, they happen today. Your bible stuff is a 2,000 years old myth.
What Christian kills his own children? any links? Brievik has no children, you must be confused with somebody else
How about Muslims forcing their children to be suicide bomber
http://news.yahoo.com/karzai-denounces- ... 42734.html
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Re: ""Whites have become Black" Aug 31, 2011
The verses are clearly a parable - unless you really think that Moses and Khidr scuppered a ship, mended a wall, murdered a child etc all in one journey. But then again, you DO believe in talking donkeys.. so I guess you are just desperate to foister your beliefs on others.


What does the clear Koran say? Does it say the passage is a parable?
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Re: ""Whites Have Become Black" Aug 31, 2011
What Christian kills his own children? any links

Here's an honour killing by a Christian family (killed their Christian daughter):
http://secularoutpost.infidels.org/2010 ... lling.html

Here's another one of Christians killing their sister (and her husband and child):
http://www.loonwatch.com/2011/04/three- ... g-to-islam

And another:
http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2005/jun/23/israel

Honour killings by Sikhs and Hindus are real too - as are other crimes carried out by Muslim/Sikhs/Hindus/Christians. Crimes committed by Muslims, Christians or Jews aren't a reflection on Islam, Christianity or Judaism - even if the criminals think they are justified in their crimes.

The Bible stuff is indeed 2000 years old - but eh believes in it, including the talking donkeys.

He's trying to get me to believe in talking ants and that it is ok to kill children. So far he's failed.

Cheers,
Shafique
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Re: ""Whites have become Black" Aug 31, 2011
event horizon wrote:
The verses are clearly a parable - unless you really think that Moses and Khidr scuppered a ship, mended a wall, murdered a child etc all in one journey. But then again, you DO believe in talking donkeys.. so I guess you are just desperate to foister your beliefs on others.


What does the clear Koran say? Does it say the passage is a parable?


Blaming me won't help clear up what the clear Koran says - it just shows you can't explain the passage in a non-literal interpretation.
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Re: ""Whites Have Become Black" Sep 01, 2011
gertrude - are you happy with the references?

eh - hey, if you want to believe in talking donkeys, talking ants, the sun stopping in the sky etc as literally true, then I guess it is no surprise you wish to believe the parable of Moses and Kidr to be literally true. I have explained why it is a parable - EXACTLY the same reason why the story of the good Samaritan in Luke is obviously a parable. Do you believe the Good Samaritan story is a parable? If so, why? Same reason for the parable in the Quran.

What is curious is why you are insisting rational Muslims follow your irrational belief?

Is it because you can't explain away your extremist views about killing children based on Biblical verses?

Cheers,
Shafique
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Re: ""Whites have become Black" Sep 01, 2011
EXACTLY the same reason why the story of the good Samaritan in Luke is obviously a parable.


There's no comparison. One's told as a historical event and the other is clearly presented as the story it is.
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Re: ""Whites Have Become Black" Sep 01, 2011
LOL - still in denial eh. Where does Luke quote Jesus saying it is a parable (he doesn't, but it is clearly a parable - just like the Quranic account of Moses and Khidr)?

Let me repeat:
What is curious is why you are insisting rational Muslims follow your irrational belief?

Is it because you can't explain away your extremist views about killing children based on Biblical verses?


Cheers,
Shafique
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Re: ""Whites have become Black" Sep 01, 2011
Yeah, except it's not told as a fable but of a historical event.

You may wish to believe the story is a parable, but the proof is in the pudding is in the eating. Do Muslim commentaries treat the story as fictional?

Let's see the evidence.
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Re: ""Whites Have Become Black" Sep 01, 2011
It is interesting how you insist your irrational beliefs are facts. I understand your frustration - you believe in talking donkeys and the sun stopping in the sky, I don't. You want to believe the parable of Moses and Khidr is a historic fact, but it is clearly a parable in the same way the Good Samaritan is a parable.

I asked a simple question - where does Luke say that the parable of the Good Samaritan is a parable and not a historical fact?

It starts as such:
Jesus answered "A certain man was going down from Jerusalem to Jericho..


How is this different from the parable of Moses and Khidr?

Cheers,
Shafique
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Re: ""Whites have become Black" Sep 01, 2011
Shaf, are you being paid to post here, you sound like propaganda.
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Re: ""Whites Have Become Black" Sep 01, 2011
What's the matter gertrude - embarrassed that I provided examples and links of Christian honour killings? You asked the question, I answered. ;)

Facts only sound like propaganda to those who insist on believing things that aren't true or who have irrational beliefs (such as the talking donkey belief of young eh). :D

Cheers,
Shafique
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Re: ""Whites Have Become Black" Sep 01, 2011
shafique wrote:Facts only sound like propaganda to those who insist on believing things that aren't true or who have irrational beliefs


This is seriously stuff that you would expect to find on toilet paper in a mental institute. :D
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