This Really Annoys Me....

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Jan 05, 2008
On one hand I sympathise, on the other I'm not sure.

A lot of these guys see their family once a year if they're lucky, and sometimes it can be very hard to fight the primal urges. On the other hand, people need to control themselves, or be kept in control.

I feel uncomfortable sometimes if guys stare at my girlfriend, but I don't dwell on it as firstly, I doubt she's going to all of a sudden run off with them, and secondly, it is really not doing any harm at all... god knows I've seen some beautiful women in my life.

However, were it to go any further, if they touched her... I'd snap their arms off. In a nice way.

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Jan 05, 2008
burton wrote:
The feeling of pride which a man gets when he knows that his wife or gf is viewed as attractive by other males - and even women - is a perfectly natural one, in western society at least (I will admit that things might change a little in Eastern or more conservative parts of the world). Any guy being honest for a second will admit as much. It is an ego boost, and something very primal too...
....

But in general, I think there are some very broad guidelines/boundaries which are shared by quite a few men...


I totally agree with you - and you have summed it up well.

It +is+ the norm in many societies to take pride in the appearance of your woman and feel pride when they attract positive attention from other men and women. You are also right that some other societies this is not the norm and what provides an ego boost will be viewed differently in these other societies.

Kanelli is also totally right to say that all humans are naturally attracted to the beauties of others. We all programmed to find others attractive. Advertisers know this all too well. :)

At the end of the day, these are matters of choice and custom - I can choose whether to ogle or not, and we all can choose the extent to which we display our natural beauties.

I was just interested here in the view that it is the degree of attention that causes offence and not that others may be attracted to one's woman. I'm not a woman, so can't comment on whether this view is tantamount to objectification of women (as possessions to be flaunted), but would imagine that for some women it would be.


Cheers,
Shafique
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Jan 05, 2008
This is a problem in Dubai that is hard to address. I agree with the posters who say it is hard on these single men because they are away from their families and give in to basic primal urges. It is one thing to give someone a quick admiring glance or a once over- this can be flaterring but to out right leer is a completely different animal.

I just can't imagine being so hard up (no pun intended) to loose any basic senses of morality and acceptable public behaviour. What Kaneli described about the guy mas**rbating in fromt of her car, should be a criminal offense, I bet if you had reported him it would have been.
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Jan 05, 2008
kanelli wrote:It is a fact that every man and woman will check out another man or woman they find attractive. It can be a beautiful face or beautiful body, whatever! I've double-taken a look at handsome men or beautiful women in dishdashas and abayyas. I completely agree that taking a look should be discreet and tasteful - just use your peripheral vision or make more frequent glances. All out staring for a long time, and most definitely physically getting close to the person etc. is absolutely rude. Quite a few men in Dubai are very basic when it comes to manners and they are incapable of being discreet. I've seen guy ma.st.ur.bating in front of my car in the Mall of Emirates parking garage, so lots of pent up s.e.x.ual frustration to be found in Dubai I guess :lol:


Must be a hot car. Is it a Corolla 2008?
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Jan 05, 2008
shafique wrote:
burton wrote:
The feeling of pride which a man gets when he knows that his wife or gf is viewed as attractive by other males - and even women - is a perfectly natural one, in western society at least (I will admit that things might change a little in Eastern or more conservative parts of the world). Any guy being honest for a second will admit as much. It is an ego boost, and something very primal too...
....

But in general, I think there are some very broad guidelines/boundaries which are shared by quite a few men...


I totally agree with you - and you have summed it up well.

It +is+ the norm in many societies to take pride in the appearance of your woman and feel pride when they attract positive attention from other men and women. You are also right that some other societies this is not the norm and what provides an ego boost will be viewed differently in these other societies.

Kanelli is also totally right to say that all humans are naturally attracted to the beauties of others. We all programmed to find others attractive. Advertisers know this all too well. :)

At the end of the day, these are matters of choice and custom - I can choose whether to ogle or not, and we all can choose the extent to which we display our natural beauties.

I was just interested here in the view that it is the degree of attention that causes offence and not that others may be attracted to one's woman. I'm not a woman, so can't comment on whether this view is tantamount to objectification of women (as possessions to be flaunted), but would imagine that for some women it would be.


Cheers,
Shafique


I bet a girlfriend or wife of a super hot/rich n powerful guy would feel the same when her guy is at the receiving end of ogling. Now let me ask how many of us men dont like strutting it around... or should that guy be behind the black clothes as well?
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Jan 05, 2008
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Jan 05, 2008
St.Lucifer wrote:
I bet a girlfriend or wife of a super hot/rich n powerful guy would feel the same when her guy is at the receiving end of ogling. Now let me ask how many of us men dont like strutting it around... or should that guy be behind the black clothes as well?



Well, typically the cultures who do encourage modest dress apply the same modesty to men as well.

On the point that women will be just as proud to show off their men..I've read though that women are more possessive and aren't too happy with younger, fitter or more attractive women checking out their husbands... but then again, I'm not a woman. :wink:

Cheers,
Shafique
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Jan 05, 2008
shafique wrote:
St.Lucifer wrote:
I bet a girlfriend or wife of a super hot/rich n powerful guy would feel the same when her guy is at the receiving end of ogling. Now let me ask how many of us men dont like strutting it around... or should that guy be behind the black clothes as well?



Well, typically the cultures who do encourage modest dress apply the same modesty to men as well.

On the point that women will be just as proud to show off their men..I've read though that women are more possessive and aren't too happy with younger, fitter or more attractive women checking out their husbands... but then again, I'm not a woman. :wink:

Cheers,
Shafique



:D

I bet they are, but would it not increase the frustration and lure to see what shouldnt be seen ?? the eternal adam n eve theroy?
People will still have to restrain themselves to not look on to things that they shouldnt.
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Re: This really annoys me.... Jan 05, 2008
gezza wrote:That would still be bearable if they could stop staring at your girl like a starved jackal stares at a steak. We caught a pack once surrounding a girl who was alone in the pool, until her boyfriend - a rather big guy - showed up and they all fled like, you guessed it, jackals.
(quote taken from another thread)


Dont they have women in their own country.



well a counter argument can be that ur wife, girlfriend, mistress or/and daughter should dress up more conservatively next time they go out. u live in a conservative society in case u didnt know.

ofcourse theyr gonna react the way they react because it is foreign to them and it sends them a lot of mixed signals. their only interaction with white naked women are thru movies and magazines.

but then again i find ur metaphor quite a racist one. i think wetsren men are the real jackasses jackals. because if we take for granted men's testosteronic aggression anywhere in the word, by proportionate misbehavior, wetsren men will top the categories of rape crimes, criminalities, dometic violence...etc?
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Jan 05, 2008
Some interesting points you raise indeed Yeats. Although I am far from conservative, sometimes when I see women in Dubai, I think "you really shouldn´t dress this way", because I see it can be very offensive according to local culture. The thread started however with an example of a woman sitting near the pool. Or do you also imply that all women should wear burqini´s there? The pool is a closed place and you can decide to go there or not...
As for Western men. What is according to you a Western man? Somebody living in a Western country? Than you are most probably right. Or somebody from a Western background? Than you are wrong I think.
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Jan 05, 2008
Flying Dutchman wrote:Some interesting points you raise indeed Yeats. Although I am far from conservative, sometimes when I see women in Dubai, I think "you really shouldn´t dress this way", because I see it can be very offensive according to local culture. The thread started however with an example of a woman sitting near the pool. Or do you also imply that all women should wear burqini´s there? The pool is a closed place and you can decide to go there or not...
As for Western men. What is according to you a Western man? Somebody living in a Western country? Than you are most probably right. Or somebody from a Western background? Than you are wrong I think.




quite certainly i dont expect burqas in swimming pools :D ... i dont know what i can suggest in such a situation except being understanding from the prey's side (however ridiculous that may sound) and a slap on the face for the 'jackal'.. there isnt a great way of accepting both as they r opposing lifestyles.
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Jan 05, 2008
No one individual can expect to please everyone...either way its just a matter of live and let live.....
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Re: This really annoys me.... Jan 05, 2008
Yeats wrote:
gezza wrote:That would still be bearable if they could stop staring at your girl like a starved jackal stares at a steak. We caught a pack once surrounding a girl who was alone in the pool, until her boyfriend - a rather big guy - showed up and they all fled like, you guessed it, jackals.
(quote taken from another thread)


Dont they have women in their own country.



well a counter argument can be that ur wife, girlfriend, mistress or/and daughter should dress up more conservatively next time they go out. u live in a conservative society in case u didnt know.

read this....
I've seen guy ma.st.ur.bating in front of my car in the Mall of Emirates parking garage, so lots of pent up s.e.x.ual frustration to be found in Dubai I guess .

my point proven.??
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Re: This really annoys me.... Jan 06, 2008
That would still be bearable if they could stop staring at your girl like a starved jackal stares at a steak. We caught a pack once surrounding a girl who was alone in the pool, until her boyfriend - a rather big guy - showed up and they all fled like, you guessed it, jackals.
(quote taken from another thread)


Haha yeah, I'm the one who wrote that a while back in a Wild Wadi thread.
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Jan 06, 2008
Where is this pool in which random groups of men can freely enter? I'd like to go there.
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Re: This really annoys me.... Jan 06, 2008
DP
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Jan 06, 2008
Yeats wrote:
well a counter argument can be that ur wife, girlfriend, mistress or/and daughter should dress up more conservatively next time they go out. u live in a conservative society in case u didnt know.

ofcourse theyr gonna react the way they react because it is foreign to them and it sends them a lot of mixed signals. their only interaction with white naked women are thru movies and magazines.

but then again i find ur metaphor quite a racist one. i think wetsren men are the real jackasses jackals. because if we take for granted men's testosteronic aggression anywhere in the word, by proportionate misbehavior, wetsren men will top the categories of rape crimes, criminalities, dometic violence...etc?


It doesn't matter what dress you wear, men here still stare. I dont know how much more conservative one can get when covered head to toe.... Also, that is a horrible generalization people (arabs + arab men especially) make. If a female is being hassled by a male she didnt necessarily ask for it, or draw any attention to herself to get it. It is so easy to catch a mans eye here....like others said, it could be due to that pent up se-xual frustrations..


I'm also quite interested in seeing you statistics proving that western men are what you say they are.
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Jan 06, 2008
gtmash wrote:Where is this pool in which random groups of men can freely enter? I'd like to go there.


Wild Wadi. And where did anyone mention anything about it being free?
Medvezhonok
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Jan 06, 2008
The only thing I could find that is coming remotely close is based on UN statistics:

http://www.nationmaster.com/red/graph/cri_rap_percap-crime-rapes-per-capita&b_map=1
Mind you, these only include reported rapes and donot provide figures based on ethnicity.
Although one can have an unendless discussion about the worth of the statistics, western countries seem to score high...
No statistics about UAE though...
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Jan 06, 2008
Flying Dutchman wrote:Although one can have an unendless discussion about the worth of the statistics, western countries seem to score high...
No statistics about UAE though...


That's one of the main problem, since subjects such as rapes, domestic abuse and sexual harassment are social taboo in any male dominated society . Women are reluctant if not afraid to report such things out of shame and embarrassment (even death).
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Jan 06, 2008
OOPS...damn thats a DP :oops:
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Jan 06, 2008
And don't forget that in the West men and woman are allowed to mix freely and they also consume alcohol. It has been well established that rape is a violent crime about domination and aggression, not necessarily about s.e.x.u.a.l gratification.

Basically, the fact that women are physically weaker is why some men attack. Just being a woman is all it takes sometimes, no matter what you wear and what you do. Men are the root of the problem :)
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Jan 06, 2008
Medvezhonok wrote:
gtmash wrote:Where is this pool in which random groups of men can freely enter? I'd like to go there.


Wild Wadi. And where did anyone mention anything about it being free?


When did I talk about Wild Wadi? I am talking about the swimming pool mentioned in earlier posts in this thread.
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Jan 06, 2008
kanelli wrote:And don't forget that in the West men and woman are allowed to mix freely and they also consume alcohol. It has been well established that rape is a violent crime about domination and aggression, not necessarily about s.e.x.u.a.l gratification.

Basically, the fact that women are physically weaker is why some men attack. Just being a woman is all it takes sometimes, no matter what you wear and what you do. Men are the root of the problem :)


K: You could claim that men are the root of the problem, however we have no control over that, its genetically built in and we have supressed it over the millenia as the human race evolves. The cavemen we used to be would simply bop their women over the head and then drag them home by the hair. This possibly still works in some societies, but I would like to think we are a little more civilised (none of my friends included!)

The situation here in Dubai is exacerbated by the imbalance between the male and female populations. Yes, there are literally millions of guys locked up in all male environments who, when they are let out, have nothing better to do than walk the streets as their salary level is so low. A pretty girl passing by is bound to attract attention from a group or an individual in this instance. Its magnified here by the social situation and means that ANY female is therefore an object of interest.

In the 'west' the genders mingle from an early age, whereas here the majority of ethnic groups here are segregated to varying degrees from an early age. Putting a large number of males together in a closed environment such as this, combined with an Alpha/Beta genotype...is a time bomb waiting to explode.

Add to this the tendency of some ladies here to forget they are in an Islamic environment and dressing either provocatively or inappropriately and its merely speeding up the ticking clock on the bomb.

The incidence of rape here is considerably lower than many places (per capita of population) and there is enormous degree of restraint taught by the Muslim faith. I wish it were the case with all religions, but it is not.

We may be to blame, but there is provocation...from time to time.

8) 8) 8)

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Jan 06, 2008
Dubai Knight wrote:
The incidence of rape here is considerably lower than many places (per capita of population)


Maybe because its a social taboo here and most of them if not all went un-reported. It will be a big blot to their family honor if a rape case is reported as the case they tend to keep silent on this. Statistics are ignored or not even up-dated, especially here.


Dubai Knight wrote:and there is enormous degree of restraint taught by the Muslim faith. I wish it were the case with all religions, but it is not.
Knight


All faith teaches respect towards their fellow men....its really about a person's respect towards others.....
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Jan 06, 2008
Dubai Knight wrote:
kanelli wrote:And don't forget that in the West men and woman are allowed to mix freely and they also consume alcohol. It has been well established that rape is a violent crime about domination and aggression, not necessarily about s.e.x.u.a.l gratification.

Basically, the fact that women are physically weaker is why some men attack. Just being a woman is all it takes sometimes, no matter what you wear and what you do. Men are the root of the problem :)


K: You could claim that men are the root of the problem, however we have no control over that, its genetically built in and we have supressed it over the millenia as the human race evolves. The cavemen we used to be would simply bop their women over the head and then drag them home by the hair. This possibly still works in some societies, but I would like to think we are a little more civilised (none of my friends included!)

The situation here in Dubai is exacerbated by the imbalance between the male and female populations. Yes, there are literally millions of guys locked up in all male environments who, when they are let out, have nothing better to do than walk the streets as their salary level is so low. A pretty girl passing by is bound to attract attention from a group or an individual in this instance. Its magnified here by the social situation and means that ANY female is therefore an object of interest.

In the 'west' the genders mingle from an early age, whereas here the majority of ethnic groups here are segregated to varying degrees from an early age. Putting a large number of males together in a closed environment such as this, combined with an Alpha/Beta genotype...is a time bomb waiting to explode.

Add to this the tendency of some ladies here to forget they are in an Islamic environment and dressing either provocatively or inappropriately and its merely speeding up the ticking clock on the bomb.

The incidence of rape here is considerably lower than many places (per capita of population) and there is enormous degree of restraint taught by the Muslim faith. I wish it were the case with all religions, but it is not.

We may be to blame, but there is provocation...from time to time.

8) 8) 8)

Knight


You are absolutely correct.
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Jan 07, 2008
gtmash wrote:
Medvezhonok wrote:
gtmash wrote:Where is this pool in which random groups of men can freely enter? I'd like to go there.


Wild Wadi. And where did anyone mention anything about it being free?


When did I talk about Wild Wadi? I am talking about the swimming pool mentioned in earlier posts in this thread.


Yes, that swimming pool mentioned in the first post to is the one in Wild Wadi. I would know since I wrote it.
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Jan 07, 2008
Reviewer made excellent points. Respect and restraint are taught in all religions, not just Islam. These are also taught in non-religious families as well. Somehow, despite this teaching, there are some men who choose to exert their will over their fellow female human beings.

The rape stats don't take into consideration all the factors, and rapes are definitely under-reported in many countries. I cringe at the thought of what happens in some countries where it is a taboo to talk about these things. There is certainly some molestation and rape going on because they know they can get away with it. Years ago I saw one documentary about a brother who raped his sister. The father and brother sawed her head off in an "honour killing". Apparently she didn't fight hard enough to fend her brother off and therefore welcomed his s.e.x.ual advances (what logic!). Her little sister had to step over her decapitated body in the morning. I can't remember where this was - think it was either Jordan or Syria.

I have to admit that I worry about the future when I see current popular culture fixating on s.e.x so much, and encouraging the s.e.x.u.a.lization of younger and younger people. I don't really think it contributes to more rapes, but it definitely brings the focus on objectifying male and female bodies - only surface and superficial features of a human. There is a heck of a lot more that is important, like brains and contribution to society.
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Jan 07, 2008
I agree with the posters that people are becomng sex.ually aware at younger and younger ages these days due to the media and society and whatnot.

As far as the problem of inappropriate behaviour goes, it is like many of you pointed out, excrabated because of the gender bias against women in this part of the world. Somehow, with everything else factored in, men see nothing wrong with subjecting women to unwanted sexual advances. This is not the case in societies that implament more equality of the genders as part of their social strata.
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Jan 07, 2008
If you don't want people to look then why are you showing
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