Forced mariage stoped by Australian court

shafique

Ok - here's something new.

I wonder whether FD also believes in the internet hoax that caps and herve believes in?

But back to the subject of this thread - we have two camps:
1. Loons who believe Islam allows paedophillia and forced marriages and rely on internet hoaxes and memri specials, and
2. the rest of us who are waiting for any serious discussion on the Quranic, Hadith and scientific evidence presented which show that Islam does not allow forced marriages, s.ex outside of marriage etc.

No smoke, no mirrors - just (verifiable) facts.

Cheers,
Shafique

Flying_Dutchman

There are two groups of people in this discussion:

-Those that consider a 50+ man having se.x with a 9 year old pedophilia
-Those that donot consider a 50+ man having se.x with a 9 year old pedophilia.

The first group are made out as loons by poster Shafique.

shafique

Loons will always avoid discussing facts and evidence, and will always revert to their beliefs. That's what distinguishes loons from those who are interested in discussing issues and examining evidence.

This thread is about forced marriages, and the loons are the ones in denial that Islam does not condone forced marriages. The perrenial loon belief about paedophillia has been addressed and the loon 'ostrich' argument makes an appearance (notably FD admitting he is not interested in the facts presented).

However, we also have comedic value from the extreme loons who believe that an internet hoax is real! Now, that is funny. 😉

Cheers,
Shafique

herve

Countless articles of human right violations show that islam condone forced marriages and $ex with prebuscent little girls. al shafique calls these articles a hoax, and those who read them loons, with no other arguments. Because the clergy oppose the end of child marriage, and because clerics say it is permissible, then islam condones it.

Saudi Girl, 8, Divorces Husband, 50
"A court in the central Oneiza region previously rejected a request by the girl’s mother for a divorce and ruled that the girl would have to wait until she reached puberty to file a petition then."

"The 8-year-old girl’s marriage was not the only one in the kingdom to receive attention in recent months. Saudi newspapers have highlighted several cases in which young girls were married off to much older men "

"Saudi Arabia’s conservative Muslim clergy have opposed the drive to end child marriages. In January, the kingdom’s most senior cleric said it was permissible for 10-year-old girls to marry and those who believe they are too young are doing the girls an injustice."

http://newsone.com/world/associated-press/saudi-girl-8-divorces-husband-50/

Flying_Dutchman

Loons will always avoid discussing facts and evidence, and will always revert to their beliefs. That's what distinguishes loons from those who are interested in discussing issues and examining evidence.

This thread is about forced marriages, and the loons are the ones in denial that Islam does not condone forced marriages. The perrenial loon belief about paedophillia has been addressed and the loon 'ostrich' argument makes an appearance (notably FD admitting he is not interested in the facts presented).

However, we also have comedic value from the extreme loons who believe that an internet hoax is real! Now, that is funny. 😉

Cheers,
Shafique

😀

You are dysregulating more and more. Try at least to keep it together a little bit, troll.

shafique

LOL - I find it much more efficient to type loons than Islamophobes. Your obsession with me and ignoring the issues of this thread is a bit creepy.

Now, why don't you help your friend herve out with his beliefs - he's getting his weird ideas again. I'm sure you can explain to him how his snippets don't show that Islam condones forced marriages - the evidence in Quran, Hadith etc are quite clear.

Cheers,
Shafique

Flying_Dutchman

Instead of trolling, why don´t you react to Herve´s post. What is your reaction to Muslim clergy, who find it ok for this girl to marry an older man:

shafique

Simple - any clergy that advocates forced marriages or believes in the internet hoax are as crazee as Caps and herve are to think that Islam advocates forced marriages. Photos of bridesmaids being passed off as brides shows that you guys don't have any real evidence - but hey, the photo is oddly reminiscent of the grotesque beauty parades they have in the USA - where recently one young girl created a controversy when her mum dressed her up as a prostitute - I think there was even a thread on this here, IIRC.

Edit - here's the 3 year old:

http://www.usmagazine.com/momsbabies/news/toddlers-and-tiaras-tot-wears-pretty-woman-prostitute-costume-201199

Now imagine your reaction if rudeboy, say, posted this photo and started an internet hoax that she's a real prostitute. That's what caps and herve are doing when they believe the internet hoax.

Full facts and references are clearly given in this video in terms of what Islam teaches:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YcDSyruxyW4

Clear evidence that any Muslim who says forced marriages are ok (or who believe in the internet hoax like herve does) are contradicting Islamic teaching.

Cheers,
Shafique

gertrude

Shaf, you really don't make any sense , it is interesting to see how you keep denying that they are young brides.
The hoax, if any, is your denial, you call them "bridesmaids", not realizing that a bridesmaids contains "BRIDES", bridesmaids are for the brides, not for the groom indeed.
So should not you these poor little girls "groomsmaids".?

Flying_Dutchman

Simple - any clergy that advocates forced marriages

The quote from the clergy in Herve´s article doesnot mention forced specifically, so your respons is irrelevant and evasive.

"Saudi Arabia’s conservative Muslim clergy have opposed the drive to end child marriages. In January, the kingdom’s most senior cleric said it was permissible for 10-year-old girls to marry and those who believe they are too young are doing the girls an injustice."

One can only guess where the evasiveness stems from. Shame? Comprehension difficulties maybe?

Full facts and references are clearly given in this video in terms of what Islam teaches: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YcDSyruxyW4

By repeating the same thing over and over, it only seems you need to convince yourself that a 50+ having se.x with a 9 year old is not pedophiliac behavior. Besides the video bases a large portion of the argument on times when Neanderthalers were roaming the earth. Interesting though that is specified what consent means. According to the video, silent means consent. Yep, a 6 year old being silent, means her consent to marriage. This is quite idiotic.

herve

Mass wedding of grown up muslim men with little girls as young as 9.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6BRzhB1BjKQ

kanelli

There are two groups of people in this discussion:

-Those that consider a 50+ man having se.x with a 9 year old pedophilia
-Those that donot consider a 50+ man having se.x with a 9 year old pedophilia.

The first group are made out as loons by poster Shafique.

So where do I fit? I see the Quran, Hadith and Islamic laws that talk about what is considered se.xual maturity and the age of consent. According to the one paper, there is scientific evidence of an age of se.xual maturity that shows that thousands of years ago 9 year olds were already menstruating. In the society back then children had to grow up quickly and make their own way in life, unlike today. Especially girls were not spending time in school and there was no additional criteria of someone being mature enough after reaching a certain level of schooling, like we have today. With all of this evidence I can see why young people were likely married off and why 9 year olds were likely have se.x. However, what I don't agree with is why much older men were paired off with such young brides. I'm interested in whether there is anything in the Quran that discusses a proper age range for couples marrying. Otherwise I still have to agree that either there is an element of pedophilia going on, or it is a matter of possession/dominance and use of a female, or perhaps both. In any case, it seems quite immoral for decades older men to be marrying and having se.x with very young brides.

shafique

See herve still believes the internet hoax despite the fact it is a total fabrication. The brides weren't filmed, and these girls were relatives of the grooms - bridesmaids, not brides.

The big thing point is that Muslims are aware of a problem, and don't ignore the issue of some tribes who do practice forced marriages.

The point is that Islam does not condone forced marriages. The loons have it the wrong way round - they are blaming Islam for the actions of a minority who are going against the teachings of Islam.

The difference is that evidence for Islam's clear teachings and explanations for historical political marriages (which are even then only consummated after physical and mental maturity) has been presented. The loon side presents internet hoaxes as fact.

Cheers,
Shafique

herve

so...muhammad the pedophile who married a 6 years old is a hoax too?

shafique

Has the penny finally dropped herve?

Do you now realise how silly you are to claim the hoax was real?

(As for the political wedding, I refer you to the video link above - let me know which particular part of the evidence presented you think is false/misleading.)

Cheers,
Shafique

herve

so...muhammad the pedophile who married a 6 years old is a hoax too?

You fall under the same patern than any Muslims who proudly display Islam's particulars, only to deny them once they become counterproductive.

shafique

In what way is referring you to evidence and asking to discuss the points raised evading the question?

The evidence to answer the question whether the marriage to Aisha represents paedophillia (as you believe) or a political marriage that was consummated when the bride reached physical and mental maturity (as the evidence shows) has been given to you. We can discuss the evidence, or you can just repeat your belief.

You were wrong about the Hamas internet hoax, so perhaps you may want to review the evidence this time round - it may save you some time and considerable embarrassment.

Cheers,
Shafique

herve

So you agree that a 50 old man be sexually active with a 6 old girl and preforming $ex between her thighs, like muhammad the pedohpile.

Another hoax for you
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4GRHD7nmWz0&feature=related

shafique

No, I don't agree with your belief - as the evidence shows you are wrong in your conclusions.

I'm happy to discuss the evidence that contradicts your view. You seem to be avoiding this.

You were wrong to believe in the obvious hoax, so perhaps you need a bit more time to realise your error here.

Cheers,
Shafique

Flying_Dutchman

According to the one paper, there is scientific evidence of an age of se.xual maturity that shows that thousands of years ago 9 year olds were already menstruating.

Yes, the article speaks of an era when Neandertahlers were still walking the earth.

With all of this evidence I can see why young people were likely married off and why 9 year olds were likely have se.x. However, what I don't agree with is why much older men were paired off with such young brides. I'm interested in whether there is anything in the Quran that discusses a proper age range for couples marrying. Otherwise I still have to agree that either there is an element of pedophilia going on, or it is a matter of possession/dominance and use of a female, or perhaps both. In any case, it seems quite immoral for decades older men to be marrying and having se.x with very young brides.

Pedophilia is more than age of consent and the age of the child, it also involves an age difference. A 13 and a 14 year old having intercourse are not considered pedophiles by the medical definition. A 50+ man with a 9 year old is! You would think a person who is the exemplar for the rest of humankind would be more careful/thoughtful with his examples.

Age of consent is a mute argument in Islam anyways, as the silence of the child is considered consent.

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