Britain Updates it's Prevent Policy

Dillon

Stastics are frequently subjective, in fact I would go as far as to say that statistics are invariably subjective, particularly when they are presented completely out of context.

shafique

Agreed - statistics CAN be subjective.

However, where statistics are available to test out a 'belief', I like to look at the statistical evidence. That's just me - I'm perfectly happy in the fact that many people don't really need evidence for their beliefs and some hold on to notions even when the evidence shows reality is different from their beliefs.

I say present the stats, present your beliefs and let people make up their minds.

In this thread -I'm in favour of measures to prevent terrorism from within the Muslim community. Education and cutting off funding are part of these measures. If it can prevent even one terror attack, then it is worthwhile.

The separate issue about the empirical evidence of terror threats does depend on actual terror attacks/threats. On that measure, we have the 99 real incidents by (Northern?) Irish terrorists to compare with the terror attacks/threats by muslim terrorists. Empirically, there's no contest.

Cheers,
Shafique

Dillon

More Smoke and mirrors, the subject of the thread is The Prevent strategy, The current threat level to the UK from international terrorism is severe. The most significant international terrorism threat to the UK remains violent extremism associated with and influenced by Al Qaeda.

http://www.homeoffice.gov.uk/counter-terrorism/review-of-prevent-strategy/

desertdudeshj

Well the key word here is international and not all.

shafique

^I love the 'influenced by' label that is applied to lump in wannabe terrorists with the 'real' Al Qaeda.

What the HO site clearly states is that the threat level in Northern Ireland is 'severe' and the threat in the rest of the UK is also 'severe'. In NI the threat is from Irish terrorists - and there they actually had 99 terrorist incidents involving bombs.

It seems quite logical to compare and contrast that with the 'severe' threat level in the rest of the UK which is said to come from 'Al Qaeda and Al Qaeda inspired' terrorists. The equivalent number of actual terrorist incidents and actual bombs is what I've requested and not received. This is strange, as the number is probably close to, if not, zero.

My contention that in Europe as a whole, in the UK as a whole (and in the USA) - the relative threat from Muslim terrorists is over-blown in the public imagination and positively distorted by the 'phobes - is therefore supported by the available official stats of terror acts.

In the UK, there were 99 terrorist acts (at least) carried out by non-Muslims. Empirically, therefore, if the Muslim threat was greater, surely we'd expect an equal or greater number of terrorist acts by Muslim terrorists in the UK during the same period.

No smoke, no mirrors and no numbers of terrorist acts by Muslims in the same period.

Simple.

Cheers,
Shafique

Dillon

More smoke and mirrors, you omitted the fact that the threat of terrorism in Great Britain from NI is Substantial, the grade below Severe, The threat to the UK from Islamic Extremism is Severe.

Terrorism, definition: The unofficial or unauthorized use of violence and intimidation in the pursuit of political aims. Not just Bombs, the threat includes every form of violence and intimidation. Your arguments persistently refuse to consider anything else but bombs, your argument is flawed.

Berrin

pssst Dillosh Do you believe in divine justice..You know British democracy was the greatest threat and danger to the ME before and after the 1st world war...Destiny or dear God destiny, it's gonna write history once more..LOL..

shafique

Your arguments persistently refuse to consider anything else but bombs, your argument is flawed.

The statistics about 99 real bombs in the UK by non-Muslim terrorists is factual. Why are you so coy when it comes to giving the equivalent number of bombs/terrorist attacks by Muslims in the UK in the same period?

Simple.

Cheers,
Shafique

Dillon

As I keep telling you, the terrorist threat to the UK comes from wider circles than just NI, and manifests itself in many forms other than just bombs. You claim to be an actuary, do you use single sources of information and selective information within those sources when you evaluate risk? Heaven forbid I should ever consider a financial instrument or insurance policy developed from your statistical analysis.<br /><br />-- Fri Jun 10, 2011 6:27 pm --<br /><br />

pssst Dillosh Do you believe in divine justice..You know British democracy was the greatest threat and danger to the ME before and after the 1st world war...Destiny or dear God destiny, it's gonna write history once more..LOL..

So long as the Arabs fight tribe against tribe, so long will they be a little people, a silly people, greedy, barbarous and cruel, as you are.

TE Lawrence

shafique

I don't recall asking for your analysis of why the statistics should be ignored - I DID ask how many bombs etc were carried out in the same period that Irish terrorists carried out the 99.

We can agree to disagree over your analysis of which group poses the greater threat in the UK, but shouldn't we first look at the number of attacks etc carried out by Muslim terrorists in the UK during the period that the non-Muslim terrorists launched the 99 terrorist attacks listed by the police?

Why so coy?

Cheers,
Shafique

Dillon

shafique

I keep asking you for the number of attacks carried out by Muslim terrorists in the UK during the time period that non-Muslim terrorists carried out the 99 attacks in official stats.

You are free to argue that this number is more signficant than the 99 real terrorist acts.. but first let's see what the number actually is.

It is a bit rich to question my 'analysis' when I've only really presented one official measure - the 99 real terrorist acts in the UK (by non-Muslim terrorists).

(I'm patient.. the question is quite simple, you see. 😉 )

Cheers,
Shafique

shafique

You call it desperation, I call it persistence. 😁

Here's another time - 99 real terrorist acts in the UK by non-Muslims vs a lower number by Muslim terrorists over the same period. What that number is should be a simple fact.

Cheers,
Shafique

Flying_Dutchman

shafique likes stats, , here some THREAD STATISTICS no of times shafique said 99 bombs = 13 % of shafique's post with "99" = 86% % of peope who take shafique stats seriously = 0% % of shafique mind infestation = %100

You are seriously underestImating how many DF-ers take him serious.

shafique

Great idea caps - although 99 has other connotations for me:

😁

But, you are forgetting a simple point - I'm not asking anyone to believe me, just to provide the statistics that show that Muslim terrorists in the UK are a greater threat than the non-Muslim terrorists in the UK who did launch 99 actual attacks/bombs.

Simple.

Cheers,
Shafique

Dillon

Shafique wrote; I keep asking you for the number of attacks carried out by Muslim terrorists in the UK during the time period that non-Muslim terrorists carried out the 99 attacks in official stats.

You are free to argue that this number is more signficant than the 99 real terrorist acts.. but first let's see what the number actually is.

It is a bit rich to question my 'analysis' when I've only really presented one official measure - the 99 real terrorist acts in the UK (by non-Muslim terrorists).

(I'm patient.. the question is quite simple, you see. )

Cheers,
Shafique

And you may persist in asking me your irrelevant questions which I will continue to ignore, unless you’ve changed your argument again, the biggest terrorism threat to the UK is from Islamic extremism and not the 99 NI bombs you now appear to be fixated with! It’s a fact, live with it, accept it Shafique and move on, do you think you are better informed to decide who is the bigger threat to the UK than the anti-terrorist agencies who work for the Home Office? Have you taken a step back and looked at what you are attempting to tell people recently? Get over it Shaf, the 99 bombs are a bigger terrorist threat to NI than they are GB, the biggest terrorist threat to the UK is Islamic extremism, fact.

shafique

I understand you believe this 'fact'.

What I don't understand is why you won't/can't give us the equivalent number of real terrorist events in the UK by Muslims over the period that the 99 terrorist attacks in the UK by non-Muslims took place.

Perhaps you're embarrassed?

Cheers,
Shafique

Dillon

But, you are forgetting a simple point - I'm not asking anyone to believe me, just to provide the statistics that show that Muslim terrorists in the UK are a greater threat than the non-Muslim terrorists in the UK who did launch 99 actual attacks/bombs.

Simple.

Cheers,
Shafique

I'm not interested in your sideline arguments or embarking on any new discussions every time you attempt to move the goal posts, this discussion is about the threat to the UK and not the threat by muslim terrorists within the UK, the biggest terrorism threat to the UK is from Islamic extremism and not the 99 NI bombs you now appear to be fixated with.

shafique

Given the fact there were 99 actual terrorist acts in the UK by non-Muslims, I would have thought it was quite legitimate to ask how many more were carried out by Muslim terrorists in the UK during the same period.

But I haven't been able to comment on that, because the number hasn't been forthcoming.

Interesting that.

Cheers,
Shafique

Dillon

Given the fact there were 99 actual terrorist acts in the UK by non-Muslims, I would have thought it was quite legitimate to ask how many more were carried out by Muslim terrorists in the UK during the same period.

But I haven't been able to comment on that, because the number hasn't been forthcoming.

Interesting that.

Cheers,
Shafique

Perhaps you should start a new thread and see how much interest you can generate when applying statistics to irrelevant scenario's?

This thread is about the threat to the UK from within and outside the UK, Terrorism, definition: The unofficial or unauthorized use of violence and intimidation in the pursuit of political aims. Not just Bombs, the threat includes every form of violence and intimidation. Your arguments persistently refuse to consider anything else but bombs and now you're discounting the threat from outside the UK, your argument is flawed.

I'm glad you find it interesting though.

« Previous Page Next Page »