Pope's Speech Angered All Muslims

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Sep 17, 2006
^ian^ wrote:Ok, a couple of things, reacting violently to an accusation of violent behaviour isn't necessarily very intelligent if you're disputing the claims.

Secondly, the Pope represents the Catholic Church, not the Islamic faith, what do you expect?

I personally think Muslims should attempt to at least prove him wrong, and show the world they're just as good (or better) at sowing the seeds of love and friendship as they are at sowing seeds of hate.


Ian, I agree with this, as typically once again, many have reacted with violent and hatful reactions only reinforcing the stereotype which is very very sad indeed.

People shouldn't be so sensitive about it all, I mean when it boils down to it, it's really silly. People get all het up over a few silly cartoons and now a poorly chosen speech, I mean for goodness sake, aren't there more importnant things to be angry about, like say oh the 800 missing child camel jockeys who never reached Pakistan after being sent from here!

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Sep 17, 2006
..........
Do you think the Pope's apology will end the controversy? Send us your comments.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/
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Sep 18, 2006
Chocoholic wrote:
^ian^ wrote:Ok, a couple of things, reacting violently to an accusation of violent behaviour isn't necessarily very intelligent if you're disputing the claims.

Secondly, the Pope represents the Catholic Church, not the Islamic faith, what do you expect?

I personally think Muslims should attempt to at least prove him wrong, and show the world they're just as good (or better) at sowing the seeds of love and friendship as they are at sowing seeds of hate.


Ian, I agree with this, as typically once again, many have reacted with violent and hatful reactions only reinforcing the stereotype which is very very sad indeed.

People shouldn't be so sensitive about it all, I mean when it boils down to it, it's really silly. People get all het up over a few silly cartoons and now a poorly chosen speech, I mean for goodness sake, aren't there more importnant things to be angry about, like say oh the 800 missing child camel jockeys who never reached Pakistan after being sent from here!


wel;l choco u have to see what ppl are sensitive to..........for u st george flag may b dear and changing it can enrage u.....same way ppl in east religion plays imp role in every walk of life.....so an insult to the founder of religion is insult to all of them.......in ur remarks u didnt even crticize th old pope... he shold have known better with yrs of experience

Oh PUh-Lez....he should have taken stories from christain crusades example after first crusade massacre a message was sent saying they killed all the inhabiants in jerusalem and blood were flowing to their knees........he should ave used that context to explain religion and vilence dont get along.......but he chose Muslims present act!
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Re: Pope's Speech Angered All Muslims Sep 18, 2006
dubaidiva wrote:
Gene wrote:German Pope Benedict XVI has offended Muslim in a speech this week where he implicitly linked Islam and violence, particularly with reference to jihad or "holy war".

He also quoted a 14th-century Byzantine emperor who said innovations introduced by the Prophet Mohammed were "evil and inhuman".

Then today, he came out to sorry to all Muslims. However, his comments have sparked an ongoing wave of anger across the Islamic world.

"It is unfortunate that such an eminent figure like the Pope has not shown leadership in promoting good relations between religions. Instead, his statement has had the effect of sowing more seeds of discord and will not be conducive for dialogue among religions." AFP


oh come on.... dumb uneducated muslims always find something to critisize the west about.... if only their English/German was a bit up to date they would find there is nothing to get upset about




ridiculously Funny...
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Sep 18, 2006
^ian^ wrote:Secondly, the Pope represents the Catholic Church, not the Islamic faith, what do you expect?


You are very right

I personally think Muslims should attempt to at least prove him wrong, and show the world they're just as good (or better) at sowing the seeds of love and friendship as they are at sowing seeds of hate
.

Man, i know that this is coming really from a good intention, but who is going to make happen. the media?!!

For more than 1400 years muslims nations have proven that, and our book talk about it since that time. and now .. out of the blue we start to become the worst nations, well.. its really our fault.

When you ask about Islam, no one knows what is it... they just hear this word in islam. What they know is: They are terrorists, they dont eat pork, and their God's name is Allah.
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Sep 18, 2006
^ian^ wrote:
I personally think Muslims should attempt to at least prove him wrong, and show the world they're just as good (or better) at sowing the seeds of love and friendship as they are at sowing seeds of hate
.

Ian,
With all due respect why does a Religion which has been around for 1400 years, has the peacefull message in its Text, proven to have had more merciful leaders than those of the Dear Pope's Christianity have to now prove themselves?
Recent stats show Islam is outgrowing ALL other faiths by a large margin. and by 2050 it is expected to become the largest.

We must not forget that the Islam was not created in September 2001. The Media frenzy and its own politically suited version was.
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Sep 19, 2006
Man, i know that this is coming really from a good intention, but who is going to make happen. the media?!!

For more than 1400 years muslims nations have proven that, and our book talk about it since that time. and now .. out of the blue we start to become the worst nations, well.. its really our fault.

When you ask about Islam, no one knows what is it... they just hear this word in islam. What they know is: They are terrorists, they dont eat pork, and their God's name is Allah.


Intimacy
Maybe you can raise awareness in your local area? Teach people what the faith really is. That way you can detach it from the Violence and hatred often portrayed in the western media.

Since you say Muslims themselves are to blame...maybe you can do your bit and lead by example and show people it is not about extremism?
it has to start somewhere...
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Pope’s indiscretion Sep 19, 2006
I quote from an editor column which really is a balanced view , atleast not going into sort of stuff like conspiracy against muslims etc, but a real analysis and it represents what a sane person would argue. I do agree we have lots of other issues to worry about as kanli wrote, however such things should be answered in a propoer manner as to warn others not to make such incidents( both muslims and christians.)


"============================================"
MUSLIMS from Indonesia to Morocco have reacted angrily to Pope Benedict XVI’s unfortunate remarks against Islam. While the two houses of parliament in Pakistan have condemned the remarks and demanded that he apologise, government leaders in Malaysia, Afghanistan, Iran, Iraq, Palestine, Egypt and Morocco have expressed anger and regrets over what all agreed were ill-advised remarks. Even the head of the state-run directorate of religious affairs in Turkey has described the pope’s statement as “full of enmity and grudge” and made it clear that the pontiff wasn’t welcome to Turkey. Now the Vatican has issued a clarification, saying that the pope did not wish to “carry out a deep examination of jihad and or Muslim thought on it” or to hurt Muslim sentiments. The pope also said he was sorry that his speech offended Muslims, though he stopped short of offering an outright apology. But if he did not wish to carry out “a deep examination” of the jihad phenomenon in the first place, then he should have kept quiet rather than uttered words devoid of common sense much less intellectual content on a subject on which Christian scholars with a profound knowledge of history and comparative religion have recorded their thoughts. Secondly, one can accept that the pope did not wish to hurt Muslim sentiments, but then the end-result of his remarks has exactly been the same. If he did not wish to offend the sentiments of the world’s one billion plus human beings, the pontiff should have been a little more circumspect in his utterances at a time when the state of Muslim-Christians relations have come under strain.

Agreed that the pope said “I quote” twice in his speech at Regensburg University and quoted a 14th century Byzantine emperor’s remarks about the Holy Prophet and jihad. Normally, a person giving a quote cannot be held responsible for the views contained in it, so long as the quotation is part of a long discourse designed to prove or disprove a point. But here the pope quoted Emperor Manual II Paleologos approvingly, and the latter retraction saying that he did not wish to hurt Muslim sentiments sounds unconvincing. In any case, he was quoting an emperor who fought losing battles against the Ottomans, was once a vassal at the court of Sultan Yildrim, owed his throne to the sultan, and paid him an annual tribute after becoming emperor at Constantinople. Later he went to Europe to seek military help against the Ottomans but merely received lip service. That Pope Benedict should have approvingly quoted someone who was at the Turks’ receiving end is indeed regrettable. Besides, does not the world’s Catholic community have enough problems of its own? Should not the pope dwell on his flock’s problems rather than quoting profanities against the Holy Prophet?

His predecessor, Pope John Paul II, was Polish and belonged to a people who have a long history of persecution. As head of the Catholic church, Paul II worked hard to create understanding among the world’s faiths, especially between Islam and Christianity, and was never on record as having said anything hurtful to Muslims. Pope Benedict XVI has regrettably failed to follow in his predecessor’s footsteps. The controversy ignited by the Danish cartoons stemmed from the work of a single individual, but here the hurt and the potential for discord are greater because the profanity came from the head of the world’s Catholic community. Strange as it may sound, German Chancellor Angela Merkel has defended the Pope, forgetting that her country has millions of Muslim citizens."

Cheers
Danyal
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Sep 19, 2006
Are moderate Muslims doing enough?
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Sep 19, 2006
kanelli wrote:Are moderate Muslims doing enough?


give examples what are they supposed to do
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Sep 19, 2006
kanelli wrote:Are moderate Muslims doing enough?


The Question should be, Are moderate Christians doing enough?

The other Thing Kan, Please define the word "Islam"
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Sep 19, 2006
kanelli wrote:Are moderate Muslims doing enough?


Yes.

The issue is that normal Muslim behaviour is not newsworthy - praying, being charitable, speaking truth and being good citizens of the world do not make headlines.

The historical truth is that Islam was never spread by the sword, nor has it spawned vicious wars in the name of Islam in the way that people were converted to Christianity at the point of the sword in Spain and elsewhere and the religious wars that was the Crusades.

The barbarians in these long centuries were those from the West whilst the civilised humanitarians were those of the Islamic empire.

Yet today we seem to need to 'prove' Islam is a peaceful religion and that it was not spread by the sword. When all the studies show that Islam is the fastest growing faith worldwide it gives us some hope that those who take the time go beyond the headlines and their biases, they find the truth.

Cheers,
Shafique
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Sep 19, 2006
kanelli wrote:Are moderate Muslims doing enough?



There is no such thing as moderate or Fundementalist muslims...a muslim is muslim. There are good muslims and there are bad muslims...in the same way as there are bad and good Christians or Jews or Hindus...so please stop dividing muslims into classifications that don't exist.
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Sep 19, 2006
shafique wrote:
kanelli wrote:Are moderate Muslims doing enough?




The historical truth is that Islam was never spread by the sword, nor has it spawned vicious wars in the name of Islam in the way that people were converted to Christianity at the point of the sword in Spain and elsewhere and the religious wars that was the Crusades.



When Muslim Arabs invaded Persia in 650 CE, a small number of Zoroastrians fled to India where most are concentrated today. Those who remained behind have survived centuries of persecution, systematic slaughter, forced conversion, heavy taxes, etc. They now number only about 18,000 and reside chiefly in Yazd, Kernan and Tehran in what is now Iran. The 1991 census counted 3,190 Zoroastrians in Canada. The actual number is believed to be much higher.

http://www.religioustolerance.org/zoroastr.htm
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Sep 19, 2006
Zoroastrians in Iran have, like other religious minorities, survived centuries of persecution. Communities exist in Tehran, as well as in Yazd and Kerman, where many still speak an Iranian language distinct from Persian. They call their language Dari (not to be confused with the Dari of Afghanistan). Their language is also called Gabri or Behdinan (literally "Of the Good Religion"). Sometimes their language is named for the cities in which it is spoken, Yazdi or Kermani. Iranian Zoroastrians were historically derogatorily called Gabar (roughly translated as 'infidel') by Muslim neighbours. The term is still used but has lost much of its derogatory meaning.

Subsequent to the fall of the Persian Empire, after which Zoroastrianism was gradually supplanted by Islam, many Zoroastrians fled to other regions in the hope of preserving their religious tradition. Among them were several groups who migrated to Gujarat, on the western shores of the Indian subcontinent, where they finally settled. The descendants of those refugees are today known as the Parsis.

In contrast to their co-religionists elsewhere, in India the Zoroastrians enjoyed tolerance and even admiration from other religious communities.

Wiki
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Moderate muslims-Please define Sep 19, 2006
I am really interested in knowing if kanelli can define what is a moderate muslim and then she should also define what is a moderate christian?. This will provide us a means of comparison between a moderate muslim and a moderate christian(unless she thinks there is no such thing as a moderate christian or that all of em are indeed already moderate including their leaders).


Cheers
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Sep 19, 2006
Firstly, Islam is very clear about statues: didn't the Prophet Mohamed break down himself the first stone Gods ? Thereafter, it became a holy duty for all good Muslims. Firuz Shah Tughlak (1351-1388) who has an avenue named after him in New Delhi, wrote: "on the day of a Hindu festival, I went there myself, ordered the executions of all the leaders and practitioners of this abomination; I destroyed their idols and temples to build mosques in their places".

......
Encyclopaedia Americana says of Hindu Kush: The name means literally 'Kills the Hindu', a reminder of the days when Hindu slaves from Indian subcontinent died in harsh Afghan mountains while being transported to Moslem courts of Central Asia. While Encyclopaedia Britannica mentions "that the name Hindu Kush first appears in 1333 AD in the writings of Ibn Battutah, the medireview Berber traveller, who said the name meant 'Hindu Killer', a meaning still given by Afghan mountain dwellers who are traditional enemies of Hindus".

"Unlike the Jewish holocaust, writes again Vyas, the exact toll of the Hindu genocide suggested by the name Hindu Kush is not available. However the number is easily likely to be in millions". A few known historical figures can be used to justify this estimate. Encyclopaedia Britannica recalls that in December 1398 AD, Timur Lane ordered the execution of at least 50,000 captives before the battle for Delhi; likewise, the number of captives butchered by Timur Lane's army was about 100,000 .

Encyclopaedia Britannica again mentions that Mughal emperor Akbar 'ordered the massacre of about 30,000 captured Rajput Hindus on February 24, 1568 AD, after the battle for Chitod, a number confirmed by Abul Fazl, Akbar's court historian. Afghan historian Khondamir records that during one of the many repeated invasions on the city of Herat in western Afghanistan, which used to be part of the Hindu Shahiya kingdoms "1,500,000 residents perished".



http://www.hvk.org/articles/0401/64.html
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Sep 19, 2006
Lahore (AsiaNews/Ucan) – Outrage at the death of a Catholic boy forced to convert to Islam at the hands of torturous abductors has prompted the Pakistan Catholic Bishop’s Commission of Justice and Peace, to take up the legal case. The Christian youth died of injuries inflicted by a teacher and students at an Islamic school. The National Commission for Justice and Peace declared May 4th that the incident reflects a worrying trend of forced conversions.

http://www.asianews.it/view.php?l=en&art=763

More generally, however, Copts complain that they often face discrimination and that they are vastly under-represented in senior government positions and in the army and the police.

Also, allegations of forced conversions surface every year.

The rise of an assertive Islamist movement in Egyptian society in the last three decades has produced tensions in Coptic-Muslim relations.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/middle_east/4080777.stm

The takeover of the National Islamic Front government in 1989, and its drive to Islamize a country that is only partly Moslem, has not only led to massive killing, starvation, displacement, and pauperization of the Dinka and Nuba populations in southern Sudan. There also has been a systematic drive to eliminate their religions, languages, legal systems, and customs. I believe we need to broaden our theoretical framework beyond the 1948 UN Convention on the Prevention and Punishment of the Crime of Genocide to include the concept of what I describe as "cultural genocide."

....
It is worth examining the language used in the NIF’s Islamizing campaign. The government of Khartoum declared jihad against the Christian Nuba; Muslim clerics issued a fatwah against "the infidels." "The Comprehensive Call" (Da’wa el Shamla) has encompassed varying intensities of indoctrination, which include political/economic/social incentives, harassment, detention, and forced conversion, especially in the "peace villages," where Christian Nuba have been "resettled" and isolated from the outside world.

It has been reported that virtually every woman placed in a peace camp has been raped or forced into service as a prostitute or concubine for the army or militia. Massive systematic rape functions as a kind of ethnic cleansing,
http://www.crimesofwar.org/sudan-mag/sudan-hale.html
valkyrie
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Sep 19, 2006
valkyrie wrote:Firstly, Islam is very clear about statues: didn't the Prophet Mohamed break down himself the first stone Gods ? Thereafter, it became a holy duty for all good Muslims. Firuz Shah Tughlak (1351-1388) who has an avenue named after him in New Delhi, wrote: "on the day of a Hindu festival, I went there myself, ordered the executions of all the leaders and practitioners of this abomination; I destroyed their idols and temples to build mosques in their places".

......
Encyclopaedia Americana says of Hindu Kush: The name means literally 'Kills the Hindu', a reminder of the days when Hindu slaves from Indian subcontinent died in harsh Afghan mountains while being transported to Moslem courts of Central Asia. While Encyclopaedia Britannica mentions "that the name Hindu Kush first appears in 1333 AD in the writings of Ibn Battutah, the medireview Berber traveller, who said the name meant 'Hindu Killer', a meaning still given by Afghan mountain dwellers who are traditional enemies of Hindus".

"Unlike the Jewish holocaust, writes again Vyas, the exact toll of the Hindu genocide suggested by the name Hindu Kush is not available. However the number is easily likely to be in millions". A few known historical figures can be used to justify this estimate. Encyclopaedia Britannica recalls that in December 1398 AD, Timur Lane ordered the execution of at least 50,000 captives before the battle for Delhi; likewise, the number of captives butchered by Timur Lane's army was about 100,000 .

Encyclopaedia Britannica again mentions that Mughal emperor Akbar 'ordered the massacre of about 30,000 captured Rajput Hindus on February 24, 1568 AD, after the battle for Chitod, a number confirmed by Abul Fazl, Akbar's court historian. Afghan historian Khondamir records that during one of the many repeated invasions on the city of Herat in western Afghanistan, which used to be part of the Hindu Shahiya kingdoms "1,500,000 residents perished".



http://www.hvk.org/articles/0401/64.html


val .... like teenage high skool fool dont cut and paste stuffs form sites.......

i ahve read enuf history and lemme tell u timur came form line of genghiz khanand he killed ANYONE let it be hindu or muslim who didnt give way to him............ secondly king Akbar was the most secular ruler india has ever seen or ever see........he loved hindus and muslims alike and wanted to unite and make new fused religion......about those killings...those killingfs were very common those days....so stop whining an dcuting and pasting an dexhibiting double personality
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Sep 19, 2006
In December 2003, a Mandaean was confronted in front of a group of people in Baghdad and told to convert to Islam. When he refused, he was killed on the spot. Many similar incidents have been reported to the SMAA including an account of a seven-year-old boy burnt to death (6). The SMAA continues to receive reports of Mandaeans being raped and murdered, often with extreme violence. It has also received reports that Mandaean places of worship (mandi) have been confiscated in several Iraqi cities (5). The police are usually of little help, little effort being made to distinguish religiously motivated crimes from other crimes (7).

As of January 2004, thirty-five Mandaean families were forced to convert to Islam, this including forced circumcisions. Mandaean women and girls in these families were forced to marry Muslim men (6). It is crucial to note here that one cannot be a Mandaean unless both of one's parents are Mandaean (1, 2, 11). Hence, the forced marriages are a means of forcing the religion out of existence. There are also numerous kidnappings of Mandaeans (7, 8), and police often tell the families that there is nothing they can do (7). Public baptisms are an important part of the Mandaean religion, and Iraqi Mandaeans are often harrassed and abused during these ceremonies (4). On 30 November 2004, a Mandaean clergyman, the Rev. Tarmida Saleem Ghada, was ambushed at the Mandaean place of prayer on the Deeala River. Tarmida was leading prayers at the river when Muslims shot him seven times in the legs, severely wounding him (17). The lawlessness of Iraq has also been used as an opportunity for the repudiation of debts owed to Mandaeans, leaving them without hope of redress (8).

http://www.counterpunch.org/bolender01082005.html
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Sep 19, 2006
sniper420 wrote:
valkyrie wrote:Firstly, Islam is very clear about statues: didn't the Prophet Mohamed break down himself the first stone Gods ? Thereafter, it became a holy duty for all good Muslims. Firuz Shah Tughlak (1351-1388) who has an avenue named after him in New Delhi, wrote: "on the day of a Hindu festival, I went there myself, ordered the executions of all the leaders and practitioners of this abomination; I destroyed their idols and temples to build mosques in their places".

......
Encyclopaedia Americana says of Hindu Kush: The name means literally 'Kills the Hindu', a reminder of the days when Hindu slaves from Indian subcontinent died in harsh Afghan mountains while being transported to Moslem courts of Central Asia. While Encyclopaedia Britannica mentions "that the name Hindu Kush first appears in 1333 AD in the writings of Ibn Battutah, the medireview Berber traveller, who said the name meant 'Hindu Killer', a meaning still given by Afghan mountain dwellers who are traditional enemies of Hindus".

"Unlike the Jewish holocaust, writes again Vyas, the exact toll of the Hindu genocide suggested by the name Hindu Kush is not available. However the number is easily likely to be in millions". A few known historical figures can be used to justify this estimate. Encyclopaedia Britannica recalls that in December 1398 AD, Timur Lane ordered the execution of at least 50,000 captives before the battle for Delhi; likewise, the number of captives butchered by Timur Lane's army was about 100,000 .

Encyclopaedia Britannica again mentions that Mughal emperor Akbar 'ordered the massacre of about 30,000 captured Rajput Hindus on February 24, 1568 AD, after the battle for Chitod, a number confirmed by Abul Fazl, Akbar's court historian. Afghan historian Khondamir records that during one of the many repeated invasions on the city of Herat in western Afghanistan, which used to be part of the Hindu Shahiya kingdoms "1,500,000 residents perished".



http://www.hvk.org/articles/0401/64.html


val .... like teenage high skool fool dont cut and paste stuffs form sites.......

i ahve read enuf history and lemme tell u timur came form line of genghiz khanand he killed ANYONE let it be hindu or muslim who didnt give way to him............ secondly king Akbar was the most secular ruler india has ever seen or ever see........he loved hindus and muslims alike and wanted to unite and make new fused religion......about those killings...those killingfs were very common those days....so stop whining an dcuting and pasting an dexhibiting double personality


why don't you provide some evidence for your asserions? reading your broken english is bad enough, but when you imbue your posts with ad hominem attacks you only make yourself look bad :wink:
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Re: Moderate muslims-Please define Sep 19, 2006
danielmax2010 wrote:I am really interested in knowing if kanelli can define what is a moderate muslim and then she should also define what is a moderate christian?. This will provide us a means of comparison between a moderate muslim and a moderate christian(unless she thinks there is no such thing as a moderate christian or that all of em are indeed already moderate including their leaders).


Cheers


Actually, it is hard to define because people's beliefs can sit on a continuum from none at all to very extreme. In general, moderate means that they look for both sides to the story, are flexible and respectful of other's people's faiths or people of their own faith who practise it to a different degree than they do. Also, moderates are not as easily swayed by propaganda because they tend to be more critical. Moderates do not believe in only one strict way to follow their faith and they do not seek to punish anyone who disagrees or who does not practise as they do. Moderates are far less prone to violence than extremists.
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Sep 19, 2006
Lionheart wrote:
kanelli wrote:Are moderate Muslims doing enough?



There is no such thing as moderate or Fundementalist muslims...a muslim is muslim. There are good muslims and there are bad muslims...in the same way as there are bad and good Christians or Jews or Hindus...so please stop dividing muslims into classifications that don't exist.


"There are good Muslims and bad Muslims." I classify people across a whole continuum of belief and yet you class them into only two opposing groups - good and bad. How can you say there is no such thing as moderate?
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Re: Moderate muslims-Please define Sep 19, 2006
kanelli wrote:Actually, it is hard to define because people's beliefs can sit on a continuum from none at all to very extreme. In general, moderate means that they look for both sides to the story, are flexible and respectful of other's people's faiths or people of their own faith who practise it to a different degree than they do. Also, moderates are not as easily swayed by propaganda because they tend to be more critical. Moderates do not believe in only one strict way to follow their faith and they do not seek to punish anyone who disagrees or who does not practise as they do. Moderates are far less prone to violence than extremists.


So does that rule out Most of Britain as Moderate Christians...as they are "Sun" readers and follow propaganda?

Does that rule out most of USA as Moderate Christians. as they watch either CNN, or FOX both channels who always beat the war drums?

You have to understand when this term "Moderate Muslims" started to be used. and that was post september 2001 when Dubya needed to find a name for muslim nations who would follow him. So for you to decide who is Moderate is a farce. Pakistan was called Moderate... but they are a military dictatorship.

If a Moderate is someone who is not prone to Violence or extreme...then that is not the US, as the government is very influenced by Evangelicials and Neo Zionists who are both proudly Anti Islam.

Moderate is open to interpretation. there is no such definition in regards to a faith. Just like the USA could never provide a definition for "Terrorism"... it is only used for convenience.

Since it is about interpretation, i will tell you what is Moderate - SWEDEN!
the most wonderfull country on earth!
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Re: Moderate muslims-Please define Sep 20, 2006
rvp_legend wrote:Since it is about interpretation, i will tell you what is Moderate - SWEDEN!
the most wonderfull country on earth!


sure thats why it has the highest suicide rate in the world.
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Sep 20, 2006
For me to decide... ? What, are you now taking me for the US government? :lol:

If you don't like my definition, then why don't you offer one up? Or are you like one of the other posters who likes separate groups into only good and bad?
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Sep 20, 2006
shafique wrote:
kanelli wrote:Are moderate Muslims doing enough?


Yes.

The issue is that normal Muslim behaviour is not newsworthy - praying, being charitable, speaking truth and being good citizens of the world do not make headlines.

The historical truth is that Islam was never spread by the sword, nor has it spawned vicious wars in the name of Islam in the way that people were converted to Christianity at the point of the sword in Spain and elsewhere and the religious wars that was the Crusades.

The barbarians in these long centuries were those from the West whilst the civilised humanitarians were those of the Islamic empire.

Yet today we seem to need to 'prove' Islam is a peaceful religion and that it was not spread by the sword. When all the studies show that Islam is the fastest growing faith worldwide it gives us some hope that those who take the time go beyond the headlines and their biases, they find the truth.

Cheers,
Shafique


well said Shafique! too many people are unaware of this and really don't want to discuss it. Have you noticed you had no reaction to your post? not even from the person who asked the question?
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Sep 20, 2006
kanelli wrote:For me to decide... ? What, are you now taking me for the US government? :lol:

If you don't like my definition, then why don't you offer one up? Or are you like one of the other posters who likes separate groups into only good and bad?


Now Now, you cannot go generalising about all who question the way you think ;-)

I just dont like labels, as it creates false images - thats all.

But i do respect your opinion, even if i may not agree with it.
rvp_legend
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Re: Moderate muslims-Please define Sep 20, 2006
MaaaD wrote:
rvp_legend wrote:Since it is about interpretation, i will tell you what is Moderate - SWEDEN!
the most wonderfull country on earth!


sure thats why it has the highest suicide rate in the world.


Sure it does

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Suicide

Read the bit about Sweden
rvp_legend
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Sep 21, 2006
tdot, in case you haven't noticed, the topics in these hot threads move fast and some points can be overlooked. I wouldn't jump to conclusions about why peope respond or why they don't.
kanelli
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