Bible Quotations - For Ebonics

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Mar 15, 2008
freza - you choose which 'true' experts to believe in - for instance calling some 'Christians' cults (eg Jehova's Witnesses).

That said, I take it from your post that you now agree that the translation I quoted is accurate as both verses use the same Greek word for 'hear'?

Are you saying that a person who believes in Jesus' words cannot read the Bible and interpret it for themselves, but should only follow what you say is the truth? Hmm.

ebonics - I don't see why you are comparing the hadith with the Bible, the Bible should be compared with the Quran.

However, if you are arguing that the Bible contains mistakes just like the hadith do, then I am totally in agreement with you.

Cheers,
Shafique

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Mar 15, 2008
freza - here is another contradiction/error from the Bible. This one I haven't heard a convincing argument for yet:

Did Jesus appear to twelve disciples after his resurrection (1 Corinthians 15:5), or was it to eleven (Matthew 27:3-5; 28:16; Mark 16:14; Luke 24:9,33; Acts 1:9-26)?

The latter verses are explicit that only 11 disciples remained after ressurection (Judas having died), so is it not the case the first verse is wrong - and therefore not the word of God?

Cheers,
Shafique
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Mar 15, 2008
Shafique,

What does what I personally (well, along with quite many others) think about the JW have to do with the true interpretation of the Bible? Well besides the fact that the JW do not interpret it correctly?

Random House Dictionary defines cult as the following:
"6. a religion or sect considered to be false, unorthodox, or extremist, with members often living outside of conventional society under the direction of a charismatic leader." Do some study into JW and see how unorthodox their belief "system" really is, historically, theologically, rationally. As I've said before, they might be great people, but their belief system is whack (IMHO). But I know you won't look into it, cuz you're not into having your eyes opened, you're into believing that you're opening other's eyes, yeah, aha.

I frankly still don't understand your obsession with the Bible and Christianity and pointing out supposed contradictions, mistakes etc.
Why not do so with your own religion? What are you trying to prove by your narrow-minded views on another religion that you clearly don't fully understand? Do you feel threatened by it? Resentful of it? Do you want to "save" a bunch of way-ward Christians in order to earn Heaven brownie points? Aaaahhh, that must be it!
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Mar 15, 2008
freza wrote:What does what I personally (well, along with quite many others) think about the JW have to do with the true interpretation of the Bible? Well besides the fact that the JW do not interpret it correctly?


They say they follow the Bible and they have a different interpretation of it from you (i.e. do not interpret it correctly).

So why is your interpretation more valid than theirs?

I understand you think they are a cult - but I guess you think all who have different religious views from you are 'wrong' and following either a cult or the devil.


freza wrote:I frankly still don't understand your obsession with the Bible and Christianity and pointing out supposed contradictions, mistakes etc.
Why not do so with your own religion? What are you trying to prove by your narrow-minded views on another religion that you clearly don't fully understand? Do you feel threatened by it? Resentful of it? Do you want to "save" a bunch of way-ward Christians in order to earn Heaven brownie points? Aaaahhh, that must be it!


So, instead of addressing the contradictions you question my motives. Hmm.

I do criticise Muslims and bad interpretations of Muslim laws - I don't get your point.

I have no issue with people choosing to follow other religions - but I do feel that I should point out facts when they aren't presented.

I certainly do defend the Quran and Islam against unjust allegations and yes I do point out the claims of Islam being the fulfillment of the final religion to be found in the Bible and other religious books.

As for saving Christians - well yes, a number of Christians have become muslim in part due to my conversations with them, but that is not the point here. My cause is truth, not the imposition of faith.


Cheers,
Shafique
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Mar 16, 2008
Shafique,

I have talked about JW's "beliefs" before and I have pointed out very serious issues. It's not my fault that you seem to suffer from Alzheimer's and can't remember it.

What's the difference...aaahh, well about 2,000 years of history compared to less than 200 years. Not much, right? Have you read the history of the Jehova's Witness? Have you noticed how they have changed some parts of the Bible - several times. Have also predicted the end of the world, more than once(!) Have not been sure what to really call Jesus. Small things like that. :D Go and read up on them and see for yourself. simple right? To be well informed but to differ on small issues is one thing, but c'mon, let's use common sense here! I think that sects like the JW actually are detrimental to Christianity as a whole because they tamper with many things, most importantly: reason.

If you noticed, most of what I quote comes from different Christian theologians of different Christian groups (Protestant groups and Catholic), but their examination of the Bible is very very similar. Real knowledge eventually brings forth the truth.

I do address your obsessions, I mean, contradictions.
You don't address the contradictions in the Quran, you just state, well they're not contradictions. Alrightythen. That explains it!
I think it's cool that you defend Islam against unjust allegations.

As for saving Christians - well yes, a number of Christians have become muslim in part due to my conversations with them, but that is not the point here.
so you've "saved them"??? this made me laugh so hard I almost fell off my chair.
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Mar 16, 2008
shafique wrote:
The latter verses are explicit that only 11 disciples remained after ressurection (Judas having died), so is it not the case the first verse is wrong - and therefore not the word of God?

Cheers,
Shafique



by the way, no one said god wrote the bible.

neither did he write the quran with his own hand.
his prophet that cant read or write, heard, supposedly learnt it all, and retold it to ones who know how to write to write it for him.
so basically he recited the whole thing accurately, everytime he got a sura, and remembered it all 100%............................. that just says it all.


lest we forget the "aya" that landed on Omar, not muhammad... to save muhammad from the women attacking his house due to his antics against them.
ebonics
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Mar 16, 2008
double post
ebonics
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Mar 16, 2008
ebonics - I agree that the reason there are mistakes and contradictions in the Bible is because it is not the literal word of God.

freza - I'll wait for you to address the issue of contradictions, and I am glad you are enjoying the conversation.

I don't get your argument that we should reject JW because they have brought new understandings of the Bible's teachings. Perhaps you are Catholic and reject all 'innovations', such as the reformation. Do you believe Protestants are also a 'cult' - or was it ok for Luther etc to interpret the Bible differently from Catholics?

Cheers,
Shafique
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Mar 16, 2008
shafique wrote:ebonics - I agree that the reason there are mistakes and contradictions in the Bible is because it is not the literal word of God.



neither is the quran.
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Mar 16, 2008
ebonics wrote:
shafique wrote:ebonics - I agree that the reason there are mistakes and contradictions in the Bible is because it is not the literal word of God.



neither is the quran.


Agree - all mistakes and contradictions in the Quran would be a sign of it not being the literal word of God. I just maintain there are no mistakes and contradictions - but that is a different thread.

Anyway - I'm glad we agree on the Bible contains mistakes, I'll let you explain to freza. :)

Cheers,
Shafique
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Mar 16, 2008
So, instead of addressing the contradictions you question my motives. Hmm.
say what?? oh child plz . I've been addressing your conjectures, even though nothing gets through you, I've still addressed them.

and I love innovations! I enjoy reading material that sheds "new light" and controversy into the Bible. But I know how to distinguish between innovations and bullcrap.

Did you notice how I stated that I read from several established Christian groups including Catholics and Protestant groups? Also I've mentioned this many MANY times before: I think that ALL established and SERIOUS Christian groups are VALID on their own basis even with differences that I might not agree with, they're still a lot more valid than not.

Re: JW. let me pose a scenario. If a Christian group comes along that does not believe in organized religion, or science for that matter, but calls itself..well let's just say it doesn't know what to refer to its group except for tax break purposes, it calls itself a religion but in actuality they're more like a sect, ok, well this group claims to have a new understanding of the Bible, for example. And they take huge liberties of interpretation and claim that the messiah was actually a certain Lord Xenu who came from a far away galaxy on a spaceship and landed on earth in the middle of a ring of active volcanoes. In the midst of all of al this this, there was a series of major explosions that killed many humans while aliens were running amok brainwashing the rest of the humans, the ones that survived. OK, would you Shafique, consider this group to be attempting a genuine understanding of the Bible? Serious question.

No, the JW don't believe in this stuff, and I'm of course alluding to Scientology, though obviously not a Christian group, they're a perfect example of a sect that has gotten its "influences" from a variety of works of literature, religions, philosophies and psychology and have formed a truly...bizarre interpretation of these works to arrive to their "philosophy". Do long-established religions consider Scientology a serious religion? I think not.

The JW is not a group that is taken seriously by the established Christian groups for several reasons, as the ones I've briefly mentioned but others that you can find out for yourself. But mainly, it's a group that butchers the Bible to fit their pre-determined belief system (a practice that you understand well, I'm sure). I think you love this group as an example because it serves as fodder for your critique of Christianity and also, they criticize established Christian groups, so hey, even better! Kinda reminds me of the Christian Zionists who naturally profess such a strong allegiance towards Judaism. But in reality, it's not that they love the Jews, it's that the Jews serve a self-serving purpose to these "Christians": shared political allegiances of the extreme American right as well as religious purposes. The Jews in their so-called "promised land" will hasten Christian Zionists prophecies, but alas, some Jews will still be condemned to hell. :-( awww. Kinda like the Jehova's, they serve a purpose when it comes to criticizing the Bible and other established Christian groups, but in the end they still won't be "saved" unless they're Muslim, according to your beliefs, right?

Here's another suggestion, since you're so into inconsistencies and really fond of the JW. Why haven't you ever tried to point out the inconsistencies of the Jehova's Witness Bible?
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Mar 16, 2008
I understand now - you agree with everyone who agrees with you. Thanks for clearing that up.

So apart from Jehova's Witnesses, Scientologists, Zionist Christians (I think you mean 'Jews for Christianity' as most Baptist Churches in the US are pro-Zionist) and Muslims - you get on with everyone else?

I thought Christianity teaches 'love thy enemy'?
:wink:

As for your last question - yes I have pointed out inconsistencies to JW - but I agree with them that Christmas is a pagan festival assimilated into Christianity and I agree they are right to not believe in Trinity. I am wrong to point out where our respective interpretations of Jesus' teachings are the same?

Cheers,
Shafique
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Mar 16, 2008
lets just get 1 thing straight


jahovas, mormons, scientologists, are not christians.


they're whackos.
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Mar 16, 2008
Mormons and Scientologists don't call themselves Christians, but JW do - their faith is based on their interpretation of the Bible.

I hesitate to deny someone their professed faith - but it appears that some Christians aren't that charitable! :)

Cheers,
Shafique
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Mar 16, 2008
Since yougo on and on and on and on in this loop, one accusing and the other denying then vise versa, I thought it would be nice to provide you with some new material:

Skeptic annotated
this includes both Bible and Quran and book of Mormons just in case.


cheers
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Mar 16, 2008
Thanks - I was wondering why my head was spinning! :)
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Mar 16, 2008
when the jahovas used to frequent my door.... (they do that )

i used to open the door, they start asking me if i know who jesus christ is... once that question is asked, its a good 80% chance they're a jahova.

i stop them in their tracks and ask them which church are they from, they'll NEVER say we're jahova's witnesses first go, you'd have to repeat the question 4 - 5 times.


once they say JW in succession - i slam my door shut


i dont consider jahovas, born again christians, church of the pentacost, mormons, apostolics, christians - they're sick misguided people that need a miracle in their own right.


i went on exchange to the states and i landed with a family that went to an apostolic church that was practically a cult, all their women had to wear long dresses, pants arent allowed, they proclaimed that TV is of the devil, and they wouldnt let me listen to music becuase it was unholy or so they said.

i lived like that for a whole year!!! week in week out id watch them fall to the ground "catching the spirit"


christians should take offence to these people labelling themselves christian.
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Mar 16, 2008
According to Jehova´s blood transfusion is against God´s will. I have seen that they rather let their own children die than allowing blood transfusion for their kids. Still makes me sick!
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Mar 17, 2008
shafique wrote:I understand now - you agree with everyone who agrees with you. Thanks for clearing that up.
uff...you're right. that is exactly what I'm all about. I think it's time to fire my therapist.

shafique wrote:So apart from Jehova's Witnesses, Scientologists, Zionist Christians (I think you mean 'Jews for Christianity' as most Baptist Churches in the US are pro-Zionist ) and Muslims - you get on with everyone else?
I thought Christianity teaches 'love thy enemy'? :wink:
Nope! I also don't get along with Jews (except the anti-Zionists ones), bazooka smokers, smokers in general, ghetto dwellers, people with facial hair, boring mommies, atheists, agnostics, extreme liberals, extreme conservatives, some evangelicals, krishnas, communists, catholics, hippies, new age peeps, wiccans and mormons. but besides these..I love everyone! ah, no enemies! my only enemy is stupidity, but I'm so used to it, that I've grown to love it.

As for your last question - yes I have pointed out inconsistencies to JW
pray where?? when?
but I agree with them that Christmas is a pagan festival assimilated into Christianity
I agree too.
and I agree they are right to not believe in Trinity.
hehehe, sure. it's not a big issue. but what is it to you?
I am wrong to point out where our respective interpretations of Jesus' teachings are the same?
?
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Mar 17, 2008
freza wrote:smokers in general, people with facial hair, agnostics, extreme liberals, hippies


seems we cant get along then.
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Mar 17, 2008
:lol:
shafique
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Mar 17, 2008
spoonman wrote:
freza wrote:smokers in general, people with facial hair, agnostics, extreme liberals, hippies


seems we cant get along then.
lol!
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