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There not outrageous claims, it's fact, from where I come from anyway.

By the sounds of it you don't even live here, so how would you know about arranged marriages - it's common practice in muslim countries, not to mention marrying within families i.e. first cousin marriages.

I don't and won't prove anything to you, for what I have seen first hand.

If certain women choose to be lazy and not to better themselves then that's their choice.

You're clearly one of these chauvinist men who wants women in one place. Well sorry bud times are a changing! We don't actually need men for much these days, you'll all be redundant soon.

I dont care where you come from; Ive lived in canada for 11 years and i consider myself an arab canadian; I have seen the way of life in canada and can tell you that what you say is only a half truth. YOUR opinion does not represent that of the general population, so get off your pompous high horse and realize that you should have facts and figures to back up the ridiculous claims you or say nothing at all.

Born and raised here, I know all about arranged marriages and marriages within families. I also know that the girl is asked for her opinion and if she says no, then its a no. There are cases where the girl isnt even asked, or doesnt even care about the whole thing, but to make it seem that arranged marriages is like what u see in those bollywood movies, ur very, very mistaken.

you CANNOT prove anything to me, there is a huge difference between "dont want to" and "cant"; get that through your skull.

You equate a homemaker with being lazy then you call ME a chauvinist? Have you ever seen a real mother hard at work? clearly you havent otherwise you would have more respect for them; but i personally think that someone who works 10 hours a day with 2 days off a week and 30 days vacation a year has it MUCH better than someone who works at 12 hours a day, is on call 24 hours a day, and has no vacation and no time off because they are constantly responsible for creatures that dont know right from wrong, and cant distinguish between what should and shouldnt be done.

hahahha, men will be redundant soon. hahahahaha you say that now, wait till ur the old woman with 3 cats in your house with no kids and no one to talk to then tell me if u dont need men hahah.

Get a life MM, I've lived around the world so can very well base my opinions on personal experience.

Of course you call yourself and Arab Canadian, pfffff isn't that what all arabs do that go there? You're arab - end of!

Chocs, u can’t judge people upon their decisions, I mean it’s obvious that a woman who works and lives independent, is strong woman. But it doesn’t mean who chooses to stay home and raise kids are not strong! IMHO housework and raising well behaved children is not an easy job to do! It’s all about which do you prefer, and which is nearer to ur nature.
Some women inherently are mothers, even at work, the thing they are best at is giving care. You can’t just categorize them with zero ambition, zero talent and are basically a waste of space.

And I totally agree with you. But the kind of people that we're probably talking about, wouldn't raise their own kids or do housework, they'd have maids and nannies!

Hey, just had a bit of a read about the issue here.. and my self a westner, and a career woman.. however, I had boyfriends both "rich" and "poor" and it's not about either, it's about the charachter of the person, and if he is a man.. and that is rather hard to find in Europe or in the Western world I find, (in my opinion that is).. The world is changing.. but to much the wrong direction, and in many cases in European and Western countries you have to look in the front to verify if the person is in fact a woman or a man! It's to much all ready, women doesn't know how to behave like women anymore, and men doesn't know how to behave like men.. I'm not raised like that.. and hence.. (yes, surely not without problems) why I like arab men more. At least they are men!!! Women have always been strong.. they don't have to prove that.. by loosing their sofness or feminity and turning out their "ladett" side.. and if someone wants to be at "home" it's thier choice.. who are any of us do judge what we do.. but please keep our identity.. that's improtant.. we are women and man.. We are different.. ( just my opionion)

monymoe wrote:

Chocoholic wrote:No there isn't but relying on someone else to provide it for you is shallow and in my book a sig of weakness that you're incapable of dong things for yourself.

Funmantra sadly it is true that many of these girls are pushed into arranged marriages and have little choice.

GT I totally agree with you, if you want something you should earn it! Not only do you get a sense of great satisfaction but it proves you're capable of standin on your own two feet.

None of my female friends have ever relied on a husband/partner to provide for them, they all work damn hard for everything they've got.

well im glad that we dont live in a world where we do things according to your book now do we? And I dont think its anywhere near true to say that 'many' of these girls are forced into arranged marriages, there is no stat nor calculation capable of proving that point, so its a moot point and shouldnt brought up again.

most of the girls that i know - including the non arab, non muslim ones ive met during my 11 year stay in canada - have told me that they'd MUCH rather sit at home and do nothing and get all the fancy things they want rather than bust their as.s for it. does that mean that all girls want to be princesses? of course not, but to quickly call 'the other side' as lazy is not fair either. men throughout history have been the PROVIDERS, and women the CAREGIVERS.

I read both the posts..
Not trying to judge anyone or simply putting someone's viewpoint down..

I agree the thought that "earning money has become need of the hour" that too in today's time where things are changing even faster than we expect it...

I really hate when such words such as meek,kind, caring words are associated with women...It relates to the timidness and weakness of women...

There will be a time in life a housewife when she won't have any1 by her side ,,not even kids...So why such a care giving attitude...

Had to write more over here,,but I would go emotional so not expressing much on the topic

"And ,who would love to stay at home doing nothing"

Pretty gal, I think Moms do not give care to receive it back. It’s not some kind of business, Moms do it because it gives them pleasure, It’s some kind of unconditional love, that I think it’s really is a gift in the nature of some women (of course not all of them). So IMHO they do not certainly expect their kids to live by their side to the end of their life. Kids didn’t have the choice to be born… So it’s not fair to expect them to live their life in the way their moms plan for them, moms give care and love to the kids and then all should go to their own path on their own decision…

I am a career woman, I cook once a month and I never do the housework! But I really respect women who decide to raise kids, give love to them and doing the housework, it is really not an easy job to do! I love my mom for the things she has done for us and if someday I wanted to be a mom I want to do it right… I don’t think it’s possible to be a great successful professional in your field and at the same time be a great mother to your kids. It is just your own decision, and it depends on what do u prefer for your life…

All in all, none of these are better than the other, the important thing is be the best at what you are doing and be happy about it.

melika969 wrote:Pretty gal, I think Moms do not give care to receive it back. It’s not some kind of business, Moms do it because it gives them pleasure, It’s some kind of unconditional love, that I think it’s really is a gift in the nature of some women (of course not all of them). So IMHO they do not certainly expect their kids to live by their side to the end of their life. Kids didn’t have the choice to be born… So it’s not fair to expect them to live their life in the way their moms plan for them, moms give care and love to the kids and then all should go to their own path on their own decision…

I am a career woman, I cook once a month and I never do the housework! But I really respect women who decide to raise kids, give love to them and doing the housework, it is really not an easy job to do! I love my mom for the things she has done for us and if someday I wanted to be a mom I want to do it right… I don’t think it’s possible to be a great successful professional in your field and at the same time be a great mother to your kids. It is just your I don’t think it’s possible to be a great successful professional in your field and at the same time be a great mother to your kids.own decision, and it depends on what do u prefer for your life…

All in all, none of these are better than the other, the important thing is be the best at what you are doing and be happy about it.

hi melika..

if u have read my post I had mentioned that I don't mean to put anyones's viewpoint down..
I respect your view,,but at the same time I don't agree to you...
I don't know if you know this there is certain potential,abilities within all human beings which have to be fulfilled...for eg: In my case if I don't work I feel lost,,also I feel worthless at times when I am idle...So in cases like me I have to work anyhow and I don't work for money ,,but to realise my true potential...

Again the last forur lines you have mentioned " But I really respect women who decide to raise kids, give love to them and doing the housework, it is really not an easy job to do! I love my mom for the things she has done for us and if someday I wanted to be a mom I want to do it right… I don’t think it’s possible to be a great successful professional in your field and at the same time be a great mother to your kids. It is just your own decision, and it depends on what do u prefer for your life…"


Everyone loves their mom,,nobody hates their mom ...

Another thing which u said "I don’t think it’s possible to be a great successful professional in your field and at the same time be a great mother to your kids" is not true..


There are examples of successful women handling their kids simultaneously, though these women don't work fulltime,, they opt for part time jobs but yet are successful...

i hope no-one takes personally on DF...Its just my view so expressing it here..

Whats it like here in dubai?, in Qatar local guys are not getting married because the marriage contract is so much money, must provide additional house, jewlery etc. Some have even ended up in jail getting into so much debt to pay for the ceremoney etc!

Pretty gal, I agree with you that it depends on the nature of the people. someone like you would be satisfied to work, some other women would be satisfied by raising kids, all I was trying to say that in my opinion you should not get emotional if women names are coming with care givers. I think there is nothing wrong with it, it is as valuable and pretty as working outside the home.

About the thing I said "I don’t think it’s possible to be a great successful professional in your field and at the same time be a great mother to your kids" well I guess the definition of great successful professional is different for me and you. You know if I wanted to be a great successful professional in my field, I should become a HR manager in well known reputable company, I should have lots of studying and trainings to keep my knowledge updated, I should keep on building a huge useful network.So I don't think one woman has the time to do all this besides taking care of kids and pay lots of attention to them and her family. At last we all have limited abilities and we should accept it. maybe one can do this for couple of years but not forever of course. but being a successful expert in a part time job and a great mom to ur children is possible, I agree with you.

Thank u for sharing ur opinion, all I wanna say is that housework and raising children should not be underestimated, those are hard things if u want to do them right!

melika969 wrote:Pretty gal, I agree with you that it depends on the nature of the people. someone like you would be satisfied to work, some other women would be satisfied by raising kids, all I was trying to say that in my opinion you should not get emotional if women names are coming with care givers. I think there is nothing wrong with it, it is as valuable and pretty as working outside the home.

About the thing I said "I don’t think it’s possible to be a great successful professional in your field and at the same time be a great mother to your kids" well I guess the definition of great successful professional is different for me and you. You know if I wanted to be a great successful professional in my field, I should become a HR manager in well known reputable company, I should have lots of studying and trainings to keep my knowledge updated, I should keep on building a huge useful network.So I don't think one woman has the time to do all this besides taking care of kids and pay lots of attention to them and her family. At last we all have limited abilities and we should accept it. maybe one can do this for couple of years but not forever of course. but being a successful expert in a part time job and a great mom to ur children is possible, I agree with you.

Thank u for sharing ur opinion, all I wanna say is that housework and raising children should not be underestimated, those are hard things if u want to do them right!

HR manager is that all? Your thinking how women in the west were in the 80's. My companies CEO is a woman and she great.

In todays world often both parents have to work, I know several guys at work who have gone part time with their wives to be house husbands.

There is a big difference between having to hire childcare, nannie etc becuase you work many hours compared to a 'princess' whose too dam lazy and doesn't want it to effect them going to malls, coffee mornings and have hired peopel to do everything.

HR manager was an exmaple!! what s wrong with you people?!

All I m saying is nothing is wrong with being known as care giver! housework is not an easy job to do!

Because you make it soun as if the womans place is in the home! That women must sacrifice for their careers for family life. In these days men have an equal responsibility. I've said it before, I know plenty of guys who are happy to play house huband and be stay at home dads and let the wife go out to bring home the bacon as it were.

It's an equal playing field out there these days, just because a woman has the ability to produce kids, doesn't mean she has to give up her career dreams and ambitions.

melika969 wrote:HR manager was an exmaple!! what s wrong with you people?!

All I m saying is nothing is wrong with being known as care giver! housework is not an easy job to do!

What is your interpretation of 'housework'

As I said before she doesn't HAVE to leave her career! I mentioned several times! I t depend on your own deceision and which makes you happy!

If you want to be a career woman it is good, If you want to be a mom and care giver it is good too. you can do each of them which makes you happy and satisfied! nothing is wrong with being a perfect mom at home! responsibilities in and out of the house is something that couples should decide with themselves. there is nothing like a predefined rule for all couples!


and again, If a woman decides to be a mom and care giver, nothing is wrong with that, If a dad wants to be house husband it is fine too if they are happy with!

I agree, being at home and raising a family is very hard work. However, you do sort of imply that a woman would have to choose between the two. I know plenty of high flying woman who also have children, it never stopped them. The whole point about women is we're built to multi-task, we don't have to choose, you can do both.

Take my mother for example, she stopped work for a few years when my and my brother came along, and then continued working once we were a few years old.

This is especially easier once children reach schooling age.

Housekeeping or Housecleaning is the systematic process of making a home neat and clean in approximately that order. This maybe applied more broadly that just an individual home, or as a metaphor for a similar "clean up" process applied elsewhere such as a procedural reform. It can also be called household management, which is the act of overseeing the organizational, financial, day-to-day operations of a house or estate, and the managing of other domestic concerns.

Wikipedia said, I agree!

yeah! She stopped work for few years and then resumed it! that's what I am talking about, lots of women can not be devoted moms and successful proffessionals in the same time. they should choose which is more make them happy. they can have part time jobs, or they husbands can do the housework etc etc etc. but I am saying being perfect in both is not realistic!

No-one is perfect, it's impossible. But it is possible to do both, many people do it very successfully.

Indeed, which means getting on your own hands and knees and doing it, not paying maid, cleaner, gardner etc. That IS a tough job.

Chocoholic wrote:No-one is perfect, it's impossible. But it is possible to do both, many people do it very successfully.

OK!!!

Roadtester wrote:Indeed, which means getting on your own hands and knees and doing it, not paying maid, cleaner, gardner etc. That IS a tough job.

for sure!

Just going off on a tangent, but thinking about it, if more people did their own houseowrk instead of paying someone else to do it, there would be less obesity, fitter people and less stress. Housework is great exercise and very theraputic.

aaaaa

I think u may edited my post unintentionally, right? it wasn't a forum bug, was it?

I think I might have accidentally hit 'edit' when I meant to press 'quote' apologies.

Normal cervice resumed. Clearly I have butter typing today. Sorry

Chocoholic wrote:Just going off on a tangent, but thinking about it, if more people did their own houseowrk instead of paying someone else to do it, there would be less obesity, fitter people and less stress. Housework is great exercise and very theraputic.

+1

I like doing my shirts - put on some dance music or metal/industrial and away you go lol!

Polishing and dusting is my thing, as well as floor mopping! Love it when everything smells clean!