Dubai Forums Dubai Discussions Dubai General Chat

Ahead of Jack and Henry!!!

Wow...!!! Have the Moslems finally taken over Britain!!!????

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article ... Harry.html

Now just wait for the Daily Mail brigade to untwist their knickers and start posting!

shafique wrote::occasion7:



Now just wait for the Daily Mail brigade to untwist their knickers and start posting!

Shafique is clearly happy to hear this.....


But don't fret Brits....The most popular name for a baby a girl is still a good ol' English name, Olivia...

But in a couple of years, it will probably be Aisha!!!!!


Get ready!!!

Well, my first name is Muhammad after all.

(But pedantry obliges me to point out that this is just a cultural phenomenon - and is equivalent of Latin children being called either Mary-Joseph or Joseph-Mary - Maria-Jose or Jose-Maria)

Where Muslim boys are called Muhammad - it is commonly as a double-barrel first name, Muhammad-Bashir, Muhammad Shafique etc.

So, this statistic is really not representative of Muslims taking over - but more of the concentration of names amongst Muslim boys (not all will have Muhammad in their name - in fact of the Muslims I know, we're not in the majority - most aren't called Muhammad).

But that said, the logic won't salve the pain of the NIMBY brigades and certainly will make loon blood boil. Added spice..

Cheers,
Shafique

You'll know when you go to the pub and order a pint of Mohammed Bin John Al Smith's best bitter!



Knight

Dubai Knight wrote:You'll know when you go to the pub and order a pint of Mohammed Bin John Al Smith's best bitter!



Knight

LOOOOOL !!

-- Fri Oct 29, 2010 9:32 pm --

Adding to what Shafique mentioned, the double name thing was really common in the past.
Not much that I heard of in Arabia honestly, but in Persia it was VERY common (not sure about today).

My grandfather's brothers names were as the following ..

Mohamad-Amin
Mohamad-Sharif
Mohamad-Noor
Mohamad-Saleh

But often they'll be called with shortcuts such as Mohamad-Sharif becomes "Masharif".
There are plenty of names that are double for both genders.

The double names starting with Mohammad has a religious background, and it's somehow to do with Sufism.
Usually, the second part of the name (that comes after Mohammad) is an adjective. For instance "Mohammad-Sharif", Sharif means "noble", thus it means "Mohammad the noble". The name itself is a praise for prophet Mohammad. This is a very cultural thing among Iranians.

Dubai Knight wrote:You'll know when you go to the pub and order a pint of Mohammed Bin John Al Smith's best bitter!



Knight

LOL
DK, you are the master of sarcasm and irony.

Dubai Knight wrote:You'll know when you go to the pub and order a pint of Mohammed Bin John Al Smith's best bitter!



Knight

You sure can crack me up, Man!!



-- Sat Oct 30, 2010 12:19 am --

symmetric wrote:

Dubai Knight wrote:You'll know when you go to the pub and order a pint of Mohammed Bin John Al Smith's best bitter!



Knight

LOOOOOL !!

-- Fri Oct 29, 2010 9:32 pm --

Adding to what Shafique mentioned, the double name thing was really common in the past.
Not much that I heard of in Arabia honestly, but in Persia it was VERY common (not sure about today).

My grandfather's brothers names were as the following ..

Mohamad-Amin
Mohamad-Sharif
Mohamad-Noor
Mohamad-Saleh

But often they'll be called with shortcuts such as Mohamad-Sharif becomes "Masharif".
There are plenty of names that are double for both genders.

The double names starting with Mohammad has a religious background, and it's somehow to do with Sufism.
Usually, the second part of the name (that comes after Mohammad) is an adjective. For instance "Mohammad-Sharif", Sharif means "noble", thus it means "Mohammad the noble". The name itself is a praise for prophet Mohammad. This is a very cultural thing among Iranians.

There was a Pakistani doctor, who was living in the same compound I stayed in for a while in KSA, whose first name was Mohammed Ali.

He told me he’d been in KSA for a very long time and finally was able to get his Saudi citizenship.

During the naturalization process, they told him he had to change his first name to either Mohammed or Ali, as no double names are allowed for Saudi citizens.

I don’t know why. Perhaps it has something to do with the Wahabi beliefs.

Perhaps Shafique knows more about it .

^TJ - nope, that one is a new one on me. Islam doesn't really say much about names - the only thing that comes to mind is that names that were associated with pagan gods were changed to 'Muslim' names when a person converted - and converts sometimes (not always) may choose an Arabic name when they convert.

But not allowing two first names is a new one on me - and a bit bizare, as in Saudi Arabia I would have thought the majority had more than one first name (I have 6!! plus my surname and all are listed on my Saudi visas when I visit the Kingdom)

Cheers,
Shafique

Tom Jones wrote:
There was a Pakistani doctor, who was living in the same compound I stayed in for a while in KSA, whose first name was Mohammed Ali.

He told me he’d been in KSA for a very long time and finally was able to get his Saudi citizenship.

During the naturalization process, they told him he had to change his first name to either Mohammed or Ali, as no double names are allowed for Saudi citizens.

I don’t know why. Perhaps it has something to do with the Wahabi beliefs.

Perhaps Shafique knows more about it .

Culture-wise, I don't think double names common among Arabs as I can't think of any example in real life.

As per the law, double names are not allowed in some countries to avoid any mix-up during process of documentation or registration. As a matter of fact, double-names are also not allowed here in the UAE, and all of the Ajams (local Persians) had to drop one of their double-names.

To conclude: It's not a Wahabi belief, it's just a law to make it easier to document, because in this part of the world (Arabia), you have 5 names in ur passport (just like Shafique said). I got 4 names, then my last name (so total 5). lol So having to use any of my double names, the 5 names will be more like 9 names

-- Sat Oct 30, 2010 9:02 am --

shafique wrote:^TJ - nope, that one is a new one on me. Islam doesn't really say much about names - the only thing that comes to mind is that names that were associated with pagan gods were changed to 'Muslim' names when a person converted - and converts sometimes (not always) may choose an Arabic name when they convert.

Islam urges to choose decent meanings names as part of the "Children's Rights".

Children's Rights, in Islam includes the following "When a man plans to marry, he is ought to choose a decent future mother for his children, and should give them good decent names, and must be responsible for their life expenses untill they can earn it themselves".

Thats all that crosses my mind about choosing names in Islam.
It's does not have to be an Arabic name, there are millions of Muslims with names based on each's culture.

Most common names used among Muslims are either names of Beni Israel's prophets (Hebrew) (eg.: Mosa, Zakariya, Ya'qub, 'Emran, 'Essa, Haroon, Maryam, Sara, Yusef etc.) or names prophet Mohammad's compangians (Arabic) (eg.: Yaser, Zayd, Khaled, Omar, Ali, Hamza, Asma, Safiya, Fatima, etc.).

All are Semitic-based names by the way, with common roots and basis. I would consider the Persian-based names as the second most popular names among Muslims specially for females.

Thank you Shaf and Symm for your informative replies.

So, it has nothing to do with the Wahabis. I am sure it has nothing to do with Islam because some well known Moslem leaders had a double first name, like Salah-Uddin. But I think he was from Persia or Kurdistan.

The documentation and security factor makes some sense, but I don't really see it as being a big security problem.

Salah-uddin was a Kurd from Tikrit in Iraq - Saddam Hussein's home town.

However, the name is an Arabic name 'Salah -ud-din' means "righteousness (Salah) of the Faith(Din/Deen)"

Noor-udin for example, means 'light of faith'; 'noorullah' = light of Allah..

But the issue of the double barrelled names in Saudi is a bit odd - I'll ask the next time I'm there.

Cheers,
Shafique

shafique wrote:Salah-uddin was a Kurd from Tikrit in Iraq - Saddam Hussein's home town.

However, the name is an Arabic name 'Salah -ud-din' means "righteousness (Salah) of the Faith(Din/Deen)"

Noor-udin for example, means 'light of faith'; 'noorullah' = light of Allah..

But the issue of the double barrelled names in Saudi is a bit odd - I'll ask the next time I'm there.

Cheers,
Shafique

Didn't know that before!

We had a driver once named Zainul Abddin (Spelling.?). If he's got Faith in his name, he surely didn't have it in his soul. I caught him once nibbling on chips (crisps) in Ramadan!!

As to the double barrelled names, the reason why they're banned in Saudi, is probably the same reason why they're banned in the UAE and other countries, as Symmetric pointed out above!!

Actually this is complete and utter BS from the Daily Mail, who're just trying to cause discontent with people again!

Here are the ACTUAL statistics - Mohommed doesn't even figure!

http://www.statistics.gov.uk/pdfdir/names1010.pdf
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-11635125
http://uk.news.yahoo.com/22/20101028/ts ... 1ccfa.html

So there! Don't take what that trashy rag writes as gospel, they're reknowned for writing rubbish!

Chocoholic wrote:Actually this is complete and utter BS from the Daily Mail, who're just trying to cause discontent with people again!

Here are the ACTUAL statistics - Mohommed doesn't even figure!

http://www.statistics.gov.uk/pdfdir/names1010.pdf
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-11635125
http://uk.news.yahoo.com/22/20101028/ts ... 1ccfa.html

So there! Don't take what that trashy rag writes as gospel, they're reknowned for writing rubbish!

God job, Chocs!!

With a country in which the population of Moslems is less that 3%, that didn't make sense to me either. But BCC and the US media reported the same thing the Daily Mail said. I'm not sure who's right??

Let's be fair to the Daily Mail - it was explicit about how it made Mohammad the top name in England and Wales:

The official list, which covers all births in 2009 in England and Wales, has Mohammed at number 16 but this does not include the many different spellings, which are all ranked separately.

When they are added in, Mohammed zooms all the way up to top spot for the first time.

They have a point, me thinks.

The issue that the other reports point out - is that there may be other variations of Oliver (eg Olly) which should be added to Oliver - and perhaps that may make the Ollies number one. I think that is a fair point.

However, what the DM is reporting is factual according to the stats.

Cheers,
Shafique

Yeah but let's face it, it's a rubbish story and this 'rag' is well known to write such things to get a rise out of people.

The Daily Mail is a horrible peice of racist, right wing trash that continualy prints lies, manufactured and fabricated stories.

Those of a Muslim faith aren't particulary well received in the UK at the moment and stories like this are only there to make sure this stays the same.

Well the Daily Mail may have been going for shock value, but they seem to be entirley accurate.

What's interesting is that other media seem to be avoiding the issue in order in order not to get a reaction. Obvioulsy Mohammed can be spelt in a number of ways using the Roman alphabet, but each of these variations arguably represents the same name. Oliver can technically be shortened to Olly, but I doubt there is any significant number of people with 'Olly' on their birth certificate in the UK.

blueshift wrote:but they seem to be entirley accurate.

The BBC beg to differ - http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-11635125

not only in UK but also in the world the most popular name is Muhammed...

FTD wrote:

blueshift wrote:but they seem to be entirley accurate.

The BBC beg to differ - http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-11635125

Ok, I'll probably regret engaging in a battle of witts with an unarmed person, but if you are following this discussion at all, you will note nobody is disputing that Mohammed is not the most popular name if you only consider one single spelling and if you consider that 'Mohamed' and 'Mohammed' are two completely different names.

There is no need for you to make a point that nobody is disputing.

blueshift wrote:

FTD wrote:

blueshift wrote:but they seem to be entirley accurate.

The BBC beg to differ - http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-11635125

Ok, I'll probably regret engaging in a battle of witts with an unarmed person, but if you are following this discussion at all, you will note nobody is disputing that Mohammed is not the most popular name if you only consider one single spelling and if you consider that 'Mohamed' and 'Mohammed' are two completely different names.

There is no need for you to make a point that nobody is disputing.

I doubt that Mohammed is the most popular name in the UK or in the World.

I actually tend to agree with Chocs.

I googled the percentage of Moslems in the UK, and I found that their percentage is about 2.7 % of the UK population.

Even if every Moslem in the UK is named Mohammed, with all its variations, that name still wouldn't be the most popular name in Britain.

Unless non-Moslems also name their children Moahmmed, which I doubt very much!!

^TJ - you know what I'm like with stats (an occupational hazard).

The Daily Mail article is accurate and is not contradicted by the other reports Chocs linked to. The DM is reporting that of the new born children in the UK, the most popular name was Oliver and 'Mohammed' was 16th most popular.

However, when you combined all the variant spellings of Muhammad, Mohammad, etc - 12 variations in total, the total number of new-born boys in England and Wales named after the Prophet of Islam was the highest number.

This is what the stats showed. Now, it is a different matter to count up the numbers of people named Muhammad, Mohammed etc in the population - and I would be surprised if they were the most popular name. In fact, we can use census or electoral roll information to look at the distribution of names of inhabitants of the UK (or indeed, look back at the stats of the names of new borns in prior years).

So - the DM isn't saying that Mohammed etc is the most popular name amongst those living in the UK, just the most popular name amongst new-borns.

But at the end of the day - it's just an interesting factoid that can be gleaned from the stats. We shouldn't read more into it than the simple fact that about 7,500 boys were named Muhammad (or variations of spellings) in England and Wales. The spread of names is quite vast - indeed, the total number of births was over 700,000 - which puts it into context.

Cheers,
Shafique

blueshift wrote:Ok, I'll probably regret engaging in a battle of witts with an unarmed person,

"wits"

Also, if you want rubbish the participant instead of contributing to the debate, it's more effective if you use your own material that isn't decades old.

The Daily Mail is for the bottom of birdcages and shredded for pet litter is it not?

ITS ABSOLUTELY TRUE BECAUSE I READ IT IN THE DAILY MAIL


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5eBT6OSr ... re=related

FTD wrote:

blueshift wrote:Ok, I'll probably regret engaging in a battle of witts with an unarmed person,

"wits"

Also, if you want rubbish the participant instead of contributing to the debate, it's more effective if you use your own material that isn't decades old.

What are you talking about FTD? My own material that isn't decades old? That doesn't make any sense.

The debate has moved on now. Instead of discussing whether the Daily Mail is factually incorrect (and it isn't), we've moved on to people discussing their feeling to the Daily Mail.

I've personally noticed that people who rubish the Daily Mail don't seem good at understanding simple logical or mathematical concepts. The DM, BBC and some other media outlets are all factually correct they just present the information in a different way. The BBC says one particular spelling of Mohammed is the 16th most common given name and the DM says that the 12 different spellings of Mohammed are collectively the most common given name.

There is no contradiction, the debate is over, please feel free to rubbish the DM out of spite for having the temerity to present information in a way that you don't find pleasing.

blueshift wrote:My own material that isn't decades old? That doesn't make any sense.

The line "engaging in a battle of witts (sic) with an unarmed person" is a very old saying and with your subsequent postings it seems you are lacking in an arsenal yourself.

blueshift wrote:please feel free to rubbish the DM out of spite for having the temerity to present information in a way that you don't find pleasing.

It's not out of spite, my hatred of racism and bigotry is far more than petty.